Do you think obesity is genetic?

Dr Giles Yeo, University of Cambridge, seems to think so:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03xj9s2

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/interviews/interview/1001083/

Or is it more complex than that? Were there as many obese people around half a century ago when we didn't eat our all the time and didn't have the fast-food outlets that seem to be the stable of most modern towns and cities?
I watched the programme last night on the TV. It seems that there are some people who have genes which mean they tend to eat more. Its not that they put on weight whilst eating the same amount as normal sized people. Just that their brain doesn't tell them to stop eating. On the other hand, there are plenty of overweight people who have no 'fat' genes!

If you stick to a calorie controlled diet you will lose will lose weight, whether or not you have 'fat' genes.
 
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The fact boils down to this - eat only what you burn off. It's hard and basic but it is true. 'Fat' genes - bacteria in the gut etc are just excuses. Your brain doesn't have to say "stop eating" as though by magic [I suspect this is due to a long gone memory of caveman days when we ate what we could when we could as tomorrow we may well go hungry] you can see when you are putting on the pounds - either exercise more [a LOT more in many cases] or eat less. There is nothing wrong with fast food [ok maybe some of it] if it is not used as a complete diet or beer and steak as the navvies that built the canals and railways used to live on - they were hard working men who burnt off the calories in their high calorie diet. If the 'scientists are to be believed [and many will] there would always have been a percentage of 'fat' people everywhere yet there were none in the old victorian workhouses.
The answer is always in one's own hands - no scapegoats no excuses - eat less or work more - brutal but true
 
I watched the programme last night on the TV. It seems that there are some people who have genes which mean they tend to eat more. Its not that they put on weight whilst eating the same amount as normal sized people. Just that their brain doesn't tell them to stop eating. On the other hand, there are plenty of overweight people who have no 'fat' genes!

If you stick to a calorie controlled diet you will lose will lose weight, whether or not you have 'fat' genes.
The fact boils down to this - eat only what you burn off. It's hard and basic but it is true. 'Fat' genes - bacteria in the gut etc are just excuses. Your brain doesn't have to say "stop eating" as though by magic [I suspect this is due to a long gone memory of caveman days when we ate what we could when we could as tomorrow we may well go hungry] you can see when you are putting on the pounds - either exercise more [a LOT more in many cases] or eat less. There is nothing wrong with fast food [ok maybe some of it] if it is not used as a complete diet or beer and steak as the navvies that built the canals and railways used to live on - they were hard working men who burnt off the calories in their high calorie diet. If the 'scientists are to be believed [and many will] there would always have been a percentage of 'fat' people everywhere yet there were none in the old victorian workhouses.
The answer is always in one's own hands - no scapegoats no excuses - eat less or work more - brutal but true
We've also artificial flavours to contend with now, something they'd less of half a century ago. The brains reaction to these can be as simple as "telling" us to eat more. It(the brain) was expecting something that never arrived. http://www.rense.com/general50/killer.htm

Give or take a few pounds, I'm the same weight now, as I was 30 years ago. Then the weight was "normal" for the height. Since then I've been underweight, put some weight on! And I've been overweight. Biggest difference I've noticed is the way this height to weight is displayed on simple, easy to understand charts. Now seldom seen. It used to be a single line, ideal weight, then they spread it out into areas, Under, Normal & Overweight. With Normal being the smallest area(got smaller as years went on).

Most work done, has been physical. Farm work that I was told was hard work before starting. I'm just someone over for the summer, what would I know about hard work! That way of life has gone, machines now. No-one in their right mind would be seen working by hand. In the space of half a century, the brain has had to get to grips with this and forget the centuries of evolution. For the person, it's easier.

Many of the navvies were actually fleeing starvation. Irish Potato Famine being a good example. Navvie being a term for those who were working on the navigations, now called canals. When the railways came, they went there. The workhouse, you went in thin and if lucky you survived. As for hard work inside such places, how many would consider sitting on the floor breaking fist sized rocks into gravel, with nothing but a hammer, physically hard work? A five mile stretch of road was built this way near where I've relatives. The road as built is now under something more modern, but there's no houses along it, old or new.

When did you last see this sort of work?
you-get-paid-for-the-shit-you-shift4.jpg
 
None of the above changes what I said and in fact confirms most of it. My argument is with the scientists offering 'answers' mainly to justify their own well paid jobs. Whether the navvies were 'fleeing starvation' or not [why they were there is actually quite irrelevant] when working they had a high calorie diet and they burnt it off - we are talking obesity here not politics. Actually breaking rocks IS hard work [and so is working a treadmill - another workhouse favourite]. The point about the workhouses is that despite the scientists claims that 'fatness' is simply a 'thing in the genes' or 'bacteria in the gut' there were no fat people in them and 'according to research' there should have been.
Artificial flavourings also don't make any difference to the fact that the answer is in the eaters own hands [or mouth] just because you might want more doesn't mean you have to have it. Blaming the food producers or fast food outlets is like the motorist caught speeding blaming his car - his foot was on the pedal, it's NOT somebody else's fault - it's yours - as an adult you take responsibility for yourself [and if you have any, your children].
Nobody suggests going back to the days of building roads by hand but the truth is indicated by the number of 'fat' soldiers at the completion of their hard basic training - none. To all the dieters and scientists searching for a 'cure' or more usually an excuse the hard fact will always remain
calories in = calories out. Sorry but it's true
 
@sidevalve, you are absolutely right. But the sad truth is that some people use up more calories than others. I know someone (woman) who is a mere 4ft 11ins (tiny!). I am 5ft 8ins (above female average). She doesn't go to a gym or exrecise beyond walking to the shops and light housework (about the same as me). She eats nearly twice the amount of calories that I do everyday. A few years ago, we kept scrupulous diaries and compared this over a month. And yet. - she is very slim and NEVER puts on weight. She eats about 2500 to 2900 Kcals per day (occasionally more).
 
Two questions, when, where & what.
Did you work 20 hours out of the 24 in a day.
Did you work 99 hours in five & half days.

As regards the artificial flavours, the brain is "hardwired" to instruct the body to demand more, when it feels its been sold short. They just increase that demand.
 
The treadmill was more common in a prison of the same time, than a workhouse.
Again that's down to scientist in those days saying it was good for those on them, as a punishment.
 
@sidevalve, you are absolutely right. But the sad truth is that some people use up more calories than others. I know someone (woman) who is a mere 4ft 11ins (tiny!). I am 5ft 8ins (above female average). She doesn't go to a gym or exrecise beyond walking to the shops and light housework (about the same as me). She eats nearly twice the amount of calories that I do everyday. A few years ago, we kept scrupulous diaries and compared this over a month. And yet. - she is very slim and NEVER puts on weight. She eats about 2500 to 2900 Kcals per day (occasionally more).
Yes I agree, everybody is different but the fact remains it is down to you, the eater - you see the pounds going on you have the choices to make - eat less or work more. If you are one of the lucky ones you will burn off the calories easily if not it will be harder but the way to do it is the same.
Two questions, when, where & what.
Did you work 20 hours out of the 24 in a day.
Did you work 99 hours in five & half days.

As regards the artificial flavours, the brain is "hardwired" to instruct the body to demand more, when it feels its been sold short. They just increase that demand.
Please explain in what way the hours I worked is relevant ? The point of this thread, as in the OP which I am trying to point out is this there is two ways to lose weight eat less or work/exercise more and the hard physical work of the days of the century and the lack of fatness among the men doing it proves this. The workhouses - navvies - prisons or any other group / situation you care to choose are all simply illustrations of that fact nothing more. They prove that the scientists giving false excuses to the overweight are simply lying. If you stopped eating completely for a month you would lose weight whatever 'bacteria' you had in your gut and whatever your 'metabolic rate' [and no I am not suggesting this as a realistic idea - just as and example]. On the other hand if you went on a hard trekking expedition in the mountains carrying a 60lb pack you could probably increase you calorific intake with no ill effects.
Artificial flavours may cause and increase 'wanting' but they are not insurmountable and they can not be compared for instance with hard drugs [and even they can be overcome].
I'm afraid the old old saying 'you dig your grave with your teeth' is often way too true and it is up to you to control them and what you put between them. Like the individual that orders a double cheeseburger and large fries plus a Mcflurry then tops it off with a 'diet' coke ? Saying "oh I'm always careful what I eat but I seem to just put the pounds on". I wonder why? There are no magic cures no scapegoats and no excuses and no it's not somebody else’s fault
 
Yes I agree, everybody is different but the fact remains it is down to you, the eater - you see the pounds going on you have the choices to make - eat less or work more. If you are one of the lucky ones you will burn off the calories easily if not it will be harder but the way to do it is the same.

Please explain in what way the hours I worked is relevant ? The point of this thread, as in the OP which I am trying to point out is this there is two ways to lose weight eat less or work/exercise more and the hard physical work of the days of the century and the lack of fatness among the men doing it proves this. The workhouses - navvies - prisons or any other group / situation you care to choose are all simply illustrations of that fact nothing more. They prove that the scientists giving false excuses to the overweight are simply lying. If you stopped eating completely for a month you would lose weight whatever 'bacteria' you had in your gut and whatever your 'metabolic rate' [and no I am not suggesting this as a realistic idea - just as and example]. On the other hand if you went on a hard trekking expedition in the mountains carrying a 60lb pack you could probably increase you calorific intake with no ill effects.
Artificial flavours may cause and increase 'wanting' but they are not insurmountable and they can not be compared for instance with hard drugs [and even they can be overcome].
I'm afraid the old old saying 'you dig your grave with your teeth' is often way too true and it is up to you to control them and what you put between them. Like the individual that orders a double cheeseburger and large fries plus a Mcflurry then tops it off with a 'diet' coke ? Saying "oh I'm always careful what I eat but I seem to just put the pounds on". I wonder why? There are no magic cures no scapegoats and no excuses and no it's not somebody else’s fault

If you can't remember when you last did a long shift, heavy manual labour, chances are you haven't.


With regards the workhouse, I never picked that institution. They were however influenced by the scientists of the day. Always considered one step away from the grave, or an easy way to get rid of family members you didn't want around. They gave the minimum required to keep a person alive. A burial cost money they'd rather spend elsewhere.

Navvies never had any canned, processed, sealed bags or jar'd food. If you want to compare like with like, you'll have to turn your garden over to growing your own. You'll not be able to use any breed of cattle/sheep/pig currently seen or heard any where near you. All are modern breeds, not around 100 years ago.

Then you've to stop using any modern foodstuffs, rule out any artificial/man-made additives. Modern, science of the last half of the 20th century.

And if you want to go down the workhouse route, try a month or two with no money, relying entirely on what you manage to grow.
 
Food is plentiful, cheap and easy to purchase (in most parts of the world), we no longer have to hunt for our food so no we are not as active as our very early ancestors so this may go some way to explaining the 'obesity epidemic' but we are all different so although eat less, exercise more works for some people but not for everyone, I feel there are many factors-food additives etc.. so there will never be an easy fix.
 
If you can't remember when you last did a long shift, heavy manual labour, chances are you haven't.
Try mixing concrete by hand and moving bricks for a 7 hour day - you will find it quite difficult. However I'm afraid my working life is totally and utterly irrelevant. The only relevant fact about Navvies or the workhouse or any other group / situation you wish to mention is that they demonstrated this fact -
No Food = thin, Lot's of food + lots of hard exercise = thin, lots of food + little exercise = fat.
Food is plentiful, cheap and easy to purchase (in most parts of the world), we no longer have to hunt for our food so no we are not as active as our very early ancestors so this may go some way to explaining the 'obesity epidemic' but we are all different so although eat less, exercise more works for some people but not for everyone, I feel there are many factors-food additives etc.. so there will never be an easy fix.

Sorry but no [ and as I am trying to point out we don't have to go back to caveman days to see this] - the whole point of my previous posts is this People who match input to output remain at a stable weight. If we ignore Navvies and prisons and the workhouse [as they seem to confuse some into believing this is some form of strange social commentary] we can use [again as I mentioned] soldiers [ no I will not list my military history as that too is irrelevant] Please note they are simply another EXAMPLE to demonstrate food in = energy out. At the end of several weeks of a hard basic training schedule there are no fat soldiers [what happens later is irrelevant] and their calorific intake while undergoing strenuous training is considerable. If your diet is laced with food additives and you suddenly decide to run ten miles every day carrying a 60lb pack without either increasing your food intake or changing the diet you will still lose weight - if it were all down to 'additives' then this would not happen. Lots of foods have additives - burger and fries have lots of 'additives' but eat only 1 burger and fries a week [and nothing else] and you will not get fat [although you may develop lots of other problems]. According to the 'experts' ALL populations should have a proportion of fat people BUT where there is no or very little food this does not happen - this alone tends to prove the 'experts' wrong.
I agree that some will find it harder than others - I agree that additives are designed to make you want more and I agree 100% that there is no 'easy' fix [ it is however simple] BUT we all have the choice and a difficult choice it is. As you say there is lots of food - but we do not have to eat it all.
Afraid it will always boil down to this
Calories in - vs - calories out
 
Try mixing concrete by hand and moving bricks for a 7 hour day - you will find it quite difficult. However I'm afraid my working life is totally and utterly irrelevant. The only relevant fact about Navvies or the workhouse or any other group / situation you wish to mention is that they demonstrated this fact -
No Food = thin, Lot's of food + lots of hard exercise = thin, lots of food + little exercise = fat.
Done that. Along with heavy manual farmwork, heavy engineering(long hours included)

Sorry but no [ and as I am trying to point out we don't have to go back to caveman days to see this] - the whole point of my previous posts is this People who match input to output remain at a stable weight. If we ignore Navvies and prisons and the workhouse [as they seem to confuse some into believing this is some form of strange social commentary] we can use [again as I mentioned] soldiers [ no I will not list my military history as that too is irrelevant] Please note they are simply another EXAMPLE to demonstrate food in = energy out. At the end of several weeks of a hard basic training schedule there are no fat soldiers [what happens later is irrelevant] and their calorific intake while undergoing strenuous training is considerable. If your diet is laced with food additives and you suddenly decide to run ten miles every day carrying a 60lb pack without either increasing your food intake or changing the diet you will still lose weight - if it were all down to 'additives' then this would not happen. Lots of foods have additives - burger and fries have lots of 'additives' but eat only 1 burger and fries a week [and nothing else] and you will not get fat [although you may develop lots of other problems]. According to the 'experts' ALL populations should have a proportion of fat people BUT where there is no or very little food this does not happen - this alone tends to prove the 'experts' wrong.
I agree that some will find it harder than others - I agree that additives are designed to make you want more and I agree 100% that there is no 'easy' fix [ it is however simple] BUT we all have the choice and a difficult choice it is. As you say there is lots of food - but we do not have to eat it all.
Afraid it will always boil down to this
Calories in - vs - calories out
It was yourself that introduced those parts in bold, no-one else. If you wish to ignore what you've already said....
As for the science side, easy look up. Easier realise that the easiest way to feed a growing population is increase the amount needed to feed them. Problems start there because there isn't enough naturally grown food, demand has outstripped supply. How do you work round that?

How Famines Make Future Generations Fat
“It’s become clear that malnutrition while your mother is pregnant can affect your health later in life,” said Robert Lane, a pediatrician and expert in epigenetics at the Medical College of Wisconsin.
The Fat After The Famine
After years of battling undernutrition, Africa is now facing an emerging threat of obesity and the two must be considered simultaneously, according to the director of nutrition at the UN’s Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO).

You'll accept one side of the science, but not the other.
 
We eat a lot more processed food now too; decades ago I remember eating very little of it as my mum went to the green grocers and butcher regularly and cooked the raw meat and vegetables, and baked pies and dumplings. She never did a weekly / monthly shop or filled a trolley with pre-made everything that just needed 'heating up'. She cooked. She made meals. And it was probably true of the generation before, and before that.

Couple the proliferation of supermarkets selling high fat and sugar processed foods with the reduction in manual jobs and you have a recipe for a larger-in-the-waist population.
 
too true @Shaun and what I simply don't understand is how my sister's generation (effectively one younger than mine) don't understand this. I get the 'oh but I go to the gym every week day'/... yeh - 30 minutes verses all that junk food is not going to burn much of it off. Her idea of healthy is M&S veg cooked in the microwave :eek:. I guess it is better than ready to heat meals in that there is some recognisable veg, but it is still covered in oil/fat and salt. But she was brought up (until she was 14 at least) with homecooked meals. She never buys veg that she has to peel. It comes out of an M&S sealed plastic bag once it is cooked! come on and she thinks it actually saves her time! That's the bit I don't understand. Rice cooked in the microwave, peas cooked in the microwave all take the same amount of time as cooking them on the stove... ahhhhhh where's that emicon for running away in despair!

As for it being genetic? Well there is a genetic element to where the fat goes on. My family it is all around the waist, irrespective of if you are female or male and for us females that is really bad news. Fat around the waist is much more dangerous that around the hips and thighs where females are traditionally meant to put it on. My hips and thighs would make a model proud, but my waistline? forget it. I have to be seriously careful about the stomach and waistline area and it makes getting clothes so very hard as a result because female clothes are designed around the traditional pear shape of a woman, not the apple shape of a man!

Genetic - only to that extend. Hereditary, only to the point that families teach members to be fat and overweight because it is seen as the norm. My mother was the first in her family with the mantra 'its ok to be fat'. I hated that line as a kid. No mother, it is not OK. You are just useless at self control. I have never actually known my mother thin. Even photos of her when she started her nurses training straight out of school show her as overweight back then. My eating disorder came from seeing everyone around me and I mean all of my immediate family, were overweight. I was determined not to turn out like them. My mother, now ex-step father, my 2 brothers and my sister were all overweight. Even my uncles and grandfather were. The only people that were not were my two grandmothers.

It's all down to portion control at the end of the day, nothing more and the problem seems to me to stem from the sizes of plates and bowls. We now specifically search out smaller bowls and plates (easier since moving to Australia) so that we are not tempted to eat more than we should. Huge breakfast bowls make a single serving of breakfast cereal seem lost at the bottom, so instinct is to put more than required into it. Simple, have a smaller bowl. The same is true for plates as well. Luckily we have found a range of pottery that we like that has smaller bowls (I think they are actually rice bowls aimed at the Asian population) and plates with a larger rim around them, so serving more than we need will be harder. Couple that will a serious attempt at portion control (bad backs make this much easier - they are significantly less painful when you weigh less, something I can vouch for 100% and which means that I will have to keep my weight very much lower for the rest of my life) and a more active lifestyle and we should be OK.
 
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