New £5 note scare for vegans.

epicuric

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According to news stories this week, the new "plastic" £5 note here in the UK is revealled as containing tallow - a substance derived from cattle. This news has not gone down well with vegans, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists, and the Bank of England has gone into panic mode! As a committed omnivore it doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I can understand the reaction of those groups who don't support the slaughter of animals. It raises a broader question of how much the fabric (literally in this case) of society should cater for the opinions of religious or other groups. On a more practical level it made me wonder what other everyday objects contain animal products. A quick Internet search reveals quite a lot - plastic bags, shampoos and conditioners, bicycle tyres, toothpaste, wood glue, photographic film to name but a few. I wonder how much these things are an issue, and how easy it is to avoid them if your principles so dictate? Furthermore, given the smoke and mirrors used by in food labelling in a highly regulated industry, how would you go about finding out whether or not your brand of fabric conditioner or bicycle tyre contained animal byproducts? Is this a source of daily vexation, I wonder, for Hindus and vegans alike?
 
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It seems that some vegetarian cafes are refusing to accept them. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...inbow-cafe-cambridge-5-note-animal-by-product

And the National Council of Hindu Temples has issued a statement against the new material and said the money “ceases to be a simple medium of exchange but becomes a medium for communicating pain and suffering and we would not want to come into contact with it.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...imal-fat-5-note-fiver-cows-beef-a7454871.html
 
Wow. it's not just those groups either.

How can they make such a fundamental mistake like that?

As for avoiding those products, a lot depends on if you are a dietary vegan or vegetarian, or actually a lifestyle vegan/vegetarian. if you are the latter, then you will already know about most of the alternatives which are readily available. Shampoo and conditioner are something I have raised in the past here on CookingBites. a surprising amount of shampoo and conditioner is suitable for at least vegetarians. vegans have a slightly harder time but soap such as the Greek's make, their famous olive oil soap, is vegan and dirt cheap. both lush and the body shop have plenty of ranges that are vegan and all I believe are vegetarian. most won't say the little things like vegan or vegetarian, but will simply say free from animal products. it scared away fewer customers!

Toothpaste had for many decades been an issue. kingfisher is the week known alternative in the v world with many health food shops stocking it. the same applies to washing powder and conditioner, cleaning agents for the home, anything that contains a surfactant. I studied them for my PhD making my own from scratch. it's not easy and it's why the industry continues to use the waste products left over from the meat and leather industry to make surfactants. and it's not just tallow (fat) that is used. any waste product is boiled to extract what lipid (hard or soft or liquid fat in any form) from bones, skin, waste organs, skulls, brain tissue etc.

What I find more surprising is that people accept this use our just turn a blind eye to it. I don't understand how people accept smearing animal products, often waste products at that, over their teeth to clean them, or over their skin or homes, children etc. I don't get it.

to accept it in things like paper, plastics such as bank notes etc just seems like more exploitation of animals farmed, born, raised and slaughtered in unnatural conditions, unnatural life spans and often inhumanely at that. it just seems wrong and for me.,it is that side of the industry I have issues with. I actually have no issues with animals raised in conditions similar or better than they would be in the wild, allowed to live their life out to the full and bred naturally. allowed to die naturally and then their bodies used to some extent. incorporating them into back notes is one step too far for me.

It's the same 'argument' I have with wool. I use second hand wool, often reclaimed by me from garments people are throwing away, rewinding the wool, dealing with breaks and then making them into 'new' blankets that people cherish or see regular use in my own home. I'm knitting one such blanket at present. there is very little new yarn in it and I won't by artificial wool because ironically it too had animal products in it! not wool, that will last decades, but again, fat extracted waste products and made into plastics which is what most artificial yarn is. t

As for how we keep track of these things, it's actually very easy. some manufacturers you just able completely. but there are lists online kept by the vegan society, the vegetarian society, PETA, and then there are apps which have been written and connect back to these databases. before the internet, it was paper, magazines from the above and word of mouth via health food shops and friends.
 
I am being devil's advocate here... :)

I actually have no issues with animals raised in conditions similar or better than they would be in the wild, allowed to live their life out to the full and bred naturally. allowed to die naturally and then their bodies used to some extent. incorporating them into back notes is one step too far for me.

Didn't you say something about you dispatching certain male chicks over on the the general chat thread? :whistling:

Re-reading that, perhaps you meant get rid of the eggs not the chicks?
 
I am being devil's advocate here... :)



Didn't you say something about you dispatching certain male chicks over on the the general chat thread? :whistling:

Re-reading that, perhaps you meant get rid of the eggs not the chicks?
As I recall, she will keep the female chicks but dispatch the male chicks and I don't think there is a way to tell while in the egg.
 
As I recall, she will keep the female chicks but dispatch the male chicks and I don't think there is a way to tell while in the egg.
I think there was a difference between heritage and non heritage - though I also don't know how you can tell if its male when still in the shell. I'm sure @SatNavSaysStraightOn will set us straight!
 
I think there was a difference between heritage and non heritage - though I also don't know how you can tell if its male when still in the shell. I'm sure @SatNavSaysStraightOn will set us straight!
If I remember right, if it was one breed, she had someone that would take them. if it was another breed no.

I need to go cook dinner or I would have a long winded question for her.
 
If I remember right, if it was one breed, she had someone that would take them. if it was another breed no.

I need to go cook dinner or I would have a long winded question for her.
Cooking dinner may be more important! We will wait to hear from @SatNavSaysStraightOn.

Talking of the new £5 notes, I've not come across any yet but then I don't carry a lot of cash (I usually pay by card). No doubt my debit card contains animal by-products too! :laugh:
 
Cooking dinner may be more important! We will wait to hear from @SatNavSaysStraightOn.

Talking of the new £5 notes, I've not come across any yet but then I don't carry a lot of cash (I usually pay by card). No doubt my debit card contains animal by-products too! :laugh:
Anymore, what is cash? I use a credit card for nearly everything. It gives us 1% back on all purchases. Though I do pay it off every month.
 
Anymore, what is cash? I use a credit card for nearly everything.
Here in Australia there are 2 main banks and cards. their systems supposedly talk to each other but the reality is very different. many many times I have had my card refused and had to pay by cash. there is a touchless system here that sometimes works sometimes doesn't. it is actually that bad that on one occasion I paid by my UK card because I want carrying enough cash as a backup. if i go into town I need to have around $100 in my wallet to cover any spends just in case my cards don't work. the stupid thing is you can scan them 3 or 4 times and it not work, then in the same shop at the same till the next attempt will work. the staff are used to it, the customers are used to it, it's annoying. get it refused too many times? not a problem. go to the bank and it won't even show add ever having been attempted. no contact with your account was ever made because the systems don't talk properly. basically if you see a certain style of card swiper at the till you know you are in for a 50/50 chance you are going to need cash. at Ikea we know the system inside out now. we tell the staff member not to both swiping the card. to bypass the system and get to the point where they get the error about incorrect application (they know it). at this point you swipe twice, very failures both times, insert to chip and pin, select savings account and it will work... after our pin code is used that is... but it is so very annoying and very unreliable as well. you never know if you are actually going to be able to purchase what you want!
 
Here in Australia there are 2 main banks and cards. their systems supposedly talk to each other but the reality is very different. many many times I have had my card refused and had to pay by cash. there is a touchless system here that sometimes works sometimes doesn't. it is actually that bad that on one occasion I paid by my UK card because I want carrying enough cash as a backup. if i go into town I need to have around $100 in my wallet to cover any spends just in case my cards don't work. the stupid thing is you can scan them 3 or 4 times and it not work, then in the same shop at the same till the next attempt will work. the staff are used to it, the customers are used to it, it's annoying. get it refused too many times? not a problem. go to the bank and it won't even show add ever having been attempted. no contact with your account was ever made because the systems don't talk properly. basically if you see a certain style of card swiper at the till you know you are in for a 50/50 chance you are going to need cash. at Ikea we know the system inside out now. we tell the staff member not to both swiping the card. to bypass the system and get to the point where they get the error about incorrect application (they know it). at this point you swipe twice, very failures both times, insert to chip and pin, select savings account and it will work... after our pin code is used that is... but it is so very annoying and very unreliable as well. you never know if you are actually going to be able to purchase what you want!
This time of year, all the retailers have failures like you just described.
Until they upgraded their system, one big store in town had one register that our card would fail at every time. Here if the machine has a chip reader, you have to automatically insert the card or it won't read.
We do keep a little cash on hand for just such things.
We were in a small town 2 weeks ago. Their one convenience store's registers that were open had a credit card failure. Luckily for some, they had an automatic teller machine.
 
Maybe we are lucky in the UK. I never seem to encounter very many problems in shops. I shop on-line for the most part, though - for pretty well everything these days.
 
Anymore, what is cash? I use a credit card for nearly everything. It gives us 1% back on all purchases. Though I do pay it off every month.
No offence intended, but it seems a strange juxtaposition for a nation to so vehemently hang on to the means to shoot each other whilst on the other hand be so willing to relinquish the ability to conduct even minor financial transactions without official scrutiny. In our quite rural part of the UK a lot of small traders still resist trading other than in cash and in Chinese shops or restaurants it is impossible to pay by card. I think they see it as a matter principle that a financial transaction between two people is private and nobody else's business. That and the issue of tax of course ☺
 
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No offence intended, but it seems a strange juxtaposition for a nation to so vehemently hang on to the means to shoot each other whilst on the other hand be so willing to relinquish the ability to conduct even minor financial transactions without official scrutiny. In our quite rural part of the UK a lot of small traders still resist trading other than in cash and in Chinese shops or restaurants it is impossible to pay by card. I think they see it as a matter principle that a financial transaction between two people is private and nobody else's business. That and the issue of tax of course ☺
No offense taken. There are places here too that do only cash. It is just rare.
Doughnuts come to mind. Also payday, title and pawn loans are usually cash. But there is paperwork involved in the last 3.
I know many younger people that do nothing but debit cards. Though as far as the government is concerned, they don't ask unless it is big transactions or you take everything you do off your taxes.
Here all the Asian restaurants take cards. Now several places refuse to take a check.
 
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