You want to go to culinary school? Read this first.

[Francesca]

@morning glory

It depends on the level.

However, a top notch Chef is extraordinarily well paid and of course, besides our national health care, there is private health insurance, amongst other perks.

A guy or gal working in a bar making omelettes is paid alot less than a 2nd in command .. or an Executive Chef obviously ..

I know doctors, biologists and I.T. Communication Engineers, and Technicians who found themselves unemployed. They attended culinary institute free, via our unemployment courses and had become Chefs ..

Definitely, the culinary expertise is far more respected in the Mediterranean.

Adrià ( Ferràn ) learnt to cook in the Military !

Must say goodnight ..

1.30am.

Have a lovely weekend ..

 

[Elawin]

.....work 60-70 hours a week. 9-10 hours a day, no breaks.

Sounds very familiar, and I didn't even work in a restaurant, just a model shop which my ex-husband decided to start up. He wasn't that daft, though; he stuck to his normal job as a bus driver, while muggins worked all the hours under the sun and did the books too. The shop was open Mondays and Wednesdays to Saturdays; most Saturdays and Sundays were spent doing fairs etc, so that meant we had to employ someone for the Saturdays when we were not there. Sometimes, if we had to go and look at some secondhand stuff after the fairs, we didn't get home until past midnight. Tuesdays were spent going to suppliers to buy more stock - anywhere from south London to Leicestershire and Northamptonshire. I shut the shop not long after we split up as I could not pay myself a living wage.

 

[Rocklobster]

I didn't set out to work so much. The plan was, and still is, to get people in place so we can get more time off. We make enough money to afford decent staff. The problem is we just can't find any..Right now, we don't have anybody who we feel we can trust to make the right decisions if we were to leave them alone. The only way my partner and I can take time off is if one of us works. The right person, or people may come along....one problem is that most employees care more about their business than yours....

 

[Cinisajoy]

@The Late Night Gourmet, firstly, thank you for the exceptional post . From my viewpoint, and the Chefs I personally know, face to face:

1) The art and preparation of excellent cuisine is as much a part of France, Spain & Italy as are its green hills, wave beaten shores, its languages and its Mediterranean folklore and all sharing an amazingly large number of culinary institutes, including Ducasse, Paul Bocuse & Le Cordón Bleu. Here one must have a Culinary Degree. However, the courses are focused on training for employment and have a wide variety of certificates, diplomas and degrees.

2) The development of the Mediterranean and in particular the French, the Basque; the Catalan and the Italian kitchens have run parallel to the long history of visitors to our lands and the monarchies. The governments of France, Spain and Italy promote our Gastro Eno Gastronomy since the Belle Epoque Era. This is what they market to the world´s travel agencies.

Le Cordón Bleu closed all its USA Culinary Institutes. The North Americans want to see their children become scientists, engineers, doctors, lawyers etc. However, in the Mediterranean triangle, gastronomy has become the plenipentiary ambassador of a way of life (Lyon, Paris, Nice, Cannes, Provençe, Marseille, Barcelona, Madrid, San Sebastian, Bilbao, Milano, Florence to name a few). The zealousness of the Mediterranean peoples, in terms of traditions, is coupled by the immense geographic settings. We are also, enormous wine growers. Spain has close to 100 Designations of Wine Regions including the Canary Islands and the Balearic Islands.

3) There is no doubt that being a Chef in a kitchen is not for sprinters. It is definitely daunting at moments & hard core labor. However, there is a passion factor that most Culinary Artists possess. They love what they do. Despite the negatives.

4) Dubai and Asia are huge employment opportunities for Chefs ..

5) There are positives and negatives in all fields of employment. One must decide for themselves ..

To sum it up, as it is getting late, also due to the lack of employment in the Mediterranean in white collar corporate jobs, a vast majority of Mediterraneans have gone to culinary school and realised how much they fit into the Chef profile. It is highly respectful employment here and well paid, to those who have developed their skills & know how to work in a team which they learn in Culinary Institute.

Good luck.
Have a lovely weekend.

Where did you get your information about what the US wants their children to do?
Our government does not make our children pick their careers while still in high school.
Please the next time you come to the states, please take a couple of days and see the real US.
No, we do not have La Cordon Bleu culinary schools.
Yes, we do have culinary schools. My brother went to one. Matter of fact there are at least 5 in Texas alone. Not to mention the Culinary Institute of Arts Cooking School.

 

[The Late Night Gourmet]

Where did you get your information about what the US wants their children to do?
Our government does not make our children pick their careers while still in high school.

I don't think she's saying that the government has anything to do with this when she says The North Americans want to see their children become scientists, engineers, doctors, lawyers etc. I think it's just saying that most parents want their kids to go into a line of work where they can make a lot of money, which is generally true.

 

[The Late Night Gourmet]

I didn't set out to work so much. The plan was, and still is, to get people in place so we can get more time off. We make enough money to afford decent staff. The problem is we just can't find any..Right now, we don't have anybody who we feel we can trust to make the right decisions if we were to leave them alone. The only way my partner and I can take time off is if one of us works. The right person, or people may come along....one problem is that most employees care more about their business than yours....

This is what I've heard from restaurant managers. Most non-franchise restaurants I've seen are run by family members or longtime friends for this reason. I've heard too many stories of floor managers pocketing some of the profits, and the owner generally doesn't find out about it until it's been happening for a long time. So, what do you do, set up surveillance equipment to keep an eye on your manager? There go some of your profits. And, when would you even have time to watch entire shifts every day to see if you can catch them stealing? I can see that this is a difficult situation.

 

[Francesca]

@The Late Night Gourmet

Thank you Late Night Gourmet.

Additionally, as you know the French, The Italians and The Iberian Spanish and the Portuguese: When you arrive and go to the Hotel and The Tourist Office of the specific cities that you are visiting, the 1st two things that they give a tourist or business visitor are: A map of the city and transport facilities and a guide of its restaurants in English or the Official language of the country ( amongst other languages ), which includes the specialties of the locality which you are visiting with, many times recipes inside the guide of the local products and where to purchase them. Eno Gastro tourism is the key to the success of these 4 countries and has been for centuries ..

The number of Michelin stars in Paris, are approx 56 to 58, the same more or less as Manhattan.

In Spain, a country much smaller in kilometres than France has approx 35 - 40 Michelin Restaurants. They had 33 however, several new Michelin Stars and additional Michelin Stars were awarded to several restaurants this year in the Canary Islands (7).

I am Reading the Michelin Guide for Spain & Portugal now ..

To sum up, the family culture of the Mediterranean is profoundly steeped in gastronomic traditions and is handed down to the children and also, due to the lack of Executive Positions and Medical Openings, many young people, have made a decisión to go to culinary institutes verses leaving their own countries to work in a White collar executive office type environment .. There are not enough corporate Job openings in the EU to fit the demand.

This is why many many people who go into the Restaurant business work in the major hotels or open a restaurant of their own, after obtaining the experience they require by "staging at Michelin restaurants" .. They are well aware of the corruption committed by Employees, Managers and even "family members" .. They are on top of the situation and many chefs, count their money at the end of the night ..
So, the decisión taken to become a Chef, means being able to live and work in the country of origin verses leaving the country you love ..

Thank you and have a wonderful wonderful summer ..

All my best to you ..

 

[Morning Glory]

This is what I've heard from restaurant managers. Most non-franchise restaurants I've seen are run by family members or longtime friends for this reason. I've heard too many stories of floor managers pocketing some of the profits, and the owner generally doesn't find out about it until it's been happening for a long time. So, what do you do, set up surveillance equipment to keep an eye on your manager? There go some of your profits. And, when would you even have time to watch entire shifts every day to see if you can catch them stealing? I can see that this is a difficult situation.

I presume though, that @Rocklobster is also talking about trusting the employees to cook things properly and manage the service as much as their honesty. I reckon the way forward for you, @The Late Night Gourmet, is to do something when you retire which is not dependent on making a profit - but for pleasure, small scale.

 

[Lynne Guinne]

...most parents want their kids to go into a line of work where they can make a lot of money, which is generally true.

Really, @The Late Night Gourmet? You think that most parents want to see their kids make a LOT of money? We must move in different circles. Most of the parents we've known over the decades since our kids were born would prefer that their children grown up to be happy in life and enjoy what they do - and that their work pays enough for them to provide for what they need and have some left to do what they want to do. But make "a lot of money"? I don't know how "generally true" that is.

 

[The Late Night Gourmet]

Really, @The Late Night Gourmet? You think that most parents want to see their kids make a LOT of money? We must move in different circles. Most of the parents we've known over the decades since our kids were born would prefer that their children grown up to be happy in life and enjoy what they do - and that their work pays enough for them to provide for what they need and have some left to do what they want to do. But make "a lot of money"? I don't know how "generally true" that is.

First off, my comment was trying to interpret what @Francesca's comment was trying to say.

Secondly, there's a world of difference between "make money at all costs" (not what I meant) and "make enough money to pay the bills" (I think the word "lot" is what threw off what I intended). In context, she was saying that a culinary career isn't something most parents would want for their kids because of how hard it is (as we've seen throughout this thread). While I think a parent does want their child to be happy, a parent should also be providing the benefit of their time in the world to advise their kids of what can actually pay the bills, while also making them happy.

My parents - much as I love them - didn't provide us with any guidance growing up. We were free to pursue whatever we wanted to do, and they supported us. On the surface, this sounds great. But, your passion as an 18-year-old might not be a realistic way to make a living. My youngest brother liked to sing, so they supported him through a bachelor's degree in music, and then a masters degree in vocal performance. But, he never had any interest in teaching. He's 45 now, and he works in a bank.

My daughter likes to paint, but I'm not going to encourage her to pursue a career in art. You can always do the things you like in your spare time (cooking, in my case) without feeling you need to make a career of it.

 

[Morning Glory]

Really, @The Late Night Gourmet? You think that most parents want to see their kids make a LOT of money? We must move in different circles. Most of the parents we've known over the decades since our kids were born would prefer that their children grown up to be happy in life and enjoy what they do - and that their work pays enough for them to provide for what they need and have some left to do what they want to do. But make "a lot of money"? I don't know how "generally true" that is.

I'm sure its quite impossible to generalise about these things. America is such a huge country with so many different cultures within it.

 

[Morning Glory]

My daughter likes to paint, but I'm not going to encourage her to pursue a career in art. You can always do the things you like in your spare time (cooking, in my case) without feeling you need to make a career of it.

Well, you know, I followed a career which began in Art School studying painting - this led to film-making and a Master's in Film & Video at the RCA. Then I went on to teach and subsequently ended up as Head of a College of Art in the University sector. Excellent pay and a good pension. Whilst a career as a painter is unlikely to pay the bills, studying art could lead to so much more. There are many opportunities in the media sector for creatives. So perhaps you shouldn't completely discourage her?

 

[Lynne Guinne]

First off, my comment was trying to interpret what @Francesca's comment was trying to say.

Secondly, there's a world of difference between "make money at all costs" (not what I meant) and "make enough money to pay the bills" (I think the word "lot" is what threw off what I intended). In context, she was saying that a culinary career isn't something most parents would want for their kids because of how hard it is (as we've seen throughout this thread). While I think a parent does want their child to be happy, a parent should also be providing the benefit of their time in the world to advise their kids of what can actually pay the bills, while also making them happy.

My parents - much as I love them - didn't provide us with any guidance growing up. We were free to pursue whatever we wanted to do, and they supported us. On the surface, this sounds great. But, your passion as an 18-year-old might not be a realistic way to make a living. My youngest brother liked to sing, so they supported him through a bachelor's degree in music, and then a masters degree in vocal performance. But, he never had any interest in teaching. He's 45 now, and he works in a bank.

My daughter likes to paint, but I'm not going to encourage her to pursue a career in art. You can always do the things you like in your spare time (cooking, in my case) without feeling you need to make a career of it.

Now I got it, @The Late Night Gourmet. It's sometimes difficult to determine context and true meaning in a forum posting. Now I understand. And completely get it. While our kids were growing up they would ask what we wanted them to grow up to be. We would tell them to work a job that made them happy but make enough to keep them housed and healthy.

 

[The Late Night Gourmet]

Well, you know, I followed a career which began in Art School studying painting - this led to film-making and a Master's in Film & Video at the RCA. Then I went on to teach and subsequently ended up as Head of a College of Art in the University sector. Excellent pay and a good pension. Whilst a career as a painter is unlikely to pay the bills, studying art could lead to so much more. There are many opportunities in the media sector for creatives. So perhaps you shouldn't completely discourage her?

One thing I've also found from being a parent is that the job of a parent is never easy, and that sometimes I'm wrong!

 

[Morning Glory]

One thing I've also found from being a parent is that the job of a parent is never easy, and that sometimes I'm wrong!

Yep! What I have found is that as they get older, the peer group they mix with has much more influence than we have as parents. I was lucky because my Dad was a 'would be' artist and he really supported me gong to Art School. I would have gone anyway, but it helped that he was pleased about it. The 'creative industries' are really quite burgeoning at the moment so its not necessarily a dead-end route.

I am thinking that I would now like to do something about my love of cooking - I don't want to go back to work full-time, but perhaps there is something I could develop.