A few irreverent questions re Harry and Meghan.

Lullabelle

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Harry has grown up with the gossip about his father-not Charles but someone else, how embarrassing must that be? questioning his paternity and slandering his mother, privilege can't soften the shame and anger he must feel about this.
 

MrsDangermouse

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Very interesting about the two different treatments the separate wives may be getting. Just curious - is the Daily Mail considered sort of a celebrity "rag" instead of a decent source of news? (I like reading things from The Guardian, at least usually.)
Its a newspaper, but not one I personally would ever read, and definitely not a decent source of news - think celebrity gossip, sensationalised and biased reporting etc. Sadly its not the only one either, I don't know if this link will work here, but there's a good compilation of other similar headlines here:
View: https://www.facebook.com/martyn.strange/posts/10157684588218444
(some from the Mail, some from the Express).

Some people don't like Meghan because she is black and foreign..some corners of this country haven't progressed very far :headshake:
No point skirting the issue of race, it is an issue for many as is homosexuality-some folk don't agree with it. We are all entitled to our opinion but some take it a bit too far and turn it into a circus rather than mind their own business.
Sadly I think you are probably correct - which makes me very sad.

she obviously has him under the thumb
Any actual evidence for that?
 

TastyReuben

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I can't speak for all Americans, obviously, but the vibe I've always gotten is that, for us, the royals are more like a wacky celebrity family, like refined Kardashians, than anything else. Royals news, for example, always appears in the Entertainment section of our papers, not with "real" news in the main section. They're for fun, not to be taken seriously.

I like them well enough, but they don't really enter into my thoughts much. I think both Will and Kate and Harry and Meg make nice couples, and in the latter, I think they're showing a united front, for the time-being. I don't really see a lot of evidence of Harry being "under her thumb," unless sticking up for your new wife is that.

I also don't think it's any secret that Harry has not enjoyed his role as a "senior" royal for the last several years, and getting married is just as likely to amplify those feelings as not. Maybe he's wanting his own identity, or their own identity as a family. Maybe he doesn't want his kid exposed to the constant public scrutiny...who knows what the motivations are, it's just conjecture on all our parts, but I think there's some indication of how deeply-felt and how long-held the feelings probably are by what appears to be the queen's understanding a level of support. She seems to be quite on board with it. As a woman who embodies the word "duty," that caught me a little by surprise, and good for her.

As someone who lives a pretty average middle class life, I can tell you, no way in the world would I give up what freedom I do have in order to trade places with him, just for access to yachts and private planes and castle homes and all that. It may seem like a life of luxury in exchange for some ribbon-cutting duties here and there, but I'd imagine most of his day, every day, is planned out for him, and he's not the one doing the planning.
 

Mountain Cat

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My own notes here, until three or four months ago, I didn't even know Meghan was "black". I did know she was born and a native to my country. I just never read the articles. I have a friend who thinks Meghan has been a disaster to the Royals - no, my friend is not British but lives back in Connecticut, but also feels a connection (for a reason I don't know - her ancestry is Italian) to the British Royalty. I occasionally do follow the Queen, because anyone who makes it to their 90's and doesn't have dementia is worth knowing something about. I'm mostly assuming the problem with Meghan is that she's American - but obviously, I could seriously be wrong on this.

Harry looks "hot" to me in a way his older brother does not, but I'm way past the age where that matters to me.
 

rascal

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Its a newspaper, but not one I personally would ever read, and definitely not a decent source of news - think celebrity gossip, sensationalised and biased reporting etc. Sadly its not the only one either, I don't know if this link will work here, but there's a good compilation of other similar headlines here:
View: https://www.facebook.com/martyn.strange/posts/10157684588218444
(some from the Mail, some from the Express).



Sadly I think you are probably correct - which makes me very sad.


Any actual evidence for that?
Just a "blokes" observation. I'm not wrong often. :)

Russ
 

MrsDangermouse

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I think I also said I thought she was the dominant one. Its nothing but a hunch and shameless gossip on my part! :ohmy:
But (assuming you don't actually know the couple), presumably this is solely due to the way their relationship has been portrayed in the press?

Just a "blokes" observation. I'm not wrong often. :)
And my part based on human observations,lol.
Wow, I was actually speechless for a good few minutes after reading that and wasn't sure whether this is the place to respond or not.

Morning Glory at least said that her impression of the couple is based on "a hunch and shameless gossip", which as I mentioned above is most likely influenced by the press coverage of them. But you seem to be implying that you believe him to be "under her thumb" because its the "normal" way women behave based on your observations? That if a man makes a controversial decision it is usually a woman's fault? That women try to always get their own way?

I don't know you, so I'm not sure whether this is an example of conscious or unconscious sexism, but I'm pretty shocked either way. And with the smiley face and the "lol" it seems you think its a perfectly acceptable attitude to have.

For the record, yes there are examples of one partner in a couple being the dominant one - its usually the man (though society doesn't often notice it because its considered "normal"), its sometimes the woman (in which case he is seen as "henpecked", or "under the thumb"), but in most cases partnerships are relatively equal with decisions being taken jointly, one side compromising on one topic, the other compromising on another.

Society may have made good progress with eradicating conscious sexism, racism and homophobia, but we still have a long way to go before unconscious prejudices are a thing of the past :(
 

caseydog

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I've never understood the whole royals thing. From my "Mercan" point of view, the British taxpayers take a hit of tens of millions of dollars to support a multi billionaire family who don't actually do anything.

As for Harry and Megan, Harry married a successful mixed-race American woman. Um, yeah, that's going to get some panties in a wad.

CD
 

morning glory

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But you seem to be implying that you believe him to be "under her thumb" because its the "normal" way women behave based on your observations?
Knowing rascal quite well, I don't think he meant that it was the normal way women behave - I think he meant that, from observing them on TV, he had that impression in their case (and that he believes he is quite good at observing human relationships).

I have the same impression but I called my impression a 'hunch' as, quite frankly, I don't have any real evidence! And I'm well aware that whatever the media coverage, it isn't going to be any sort of guide to what really goes on between them.

but in most cases partnerships are relatively equal with decisions being taken jointly, one side compromising on one topic, the other compromising on another.
I wish I believed that it was 'in most cases'. Maybe it is more the norm in the Western world than it used to be - but there are still many many examples of hetrosexual relationships where men dominate and worse, are actually abusive to women either mentally, physically or both. And if we look at a many other cultures it is sadly still the norm for women to take a subservient role.
 

TastyReuben

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But (assuming you don't actually know the couple), presumably this is solely due to the way their relationship has been portrayed in the press?



Wow, I was actually speechless for a good few minutes after reading that and wasn't sure whether this is the place to respond or not.

Morning Glory at least said that her impression of the couple is based on "a hunch and shameless gossip", which as I mentioned above is most likely influenced by the press coverage of them. But you seem to be implying that you believe him to be "under her thumb" because its the "normal" way women behave based on your observations? That if a man makes a controversial decision it is usually a woman's fault? That women try to always get their own way?

I don't know you, so I'm not sure whether this is an example of conscious or unconscious sexism, but I'm pretty shocked either way. And with the smiley face and the "lol" it seems you think its a perfectly acceptable attitude to have.

For the record, yes there are examples of one partner in a couple being the dominant one - its usually the man (though society doesn't often notice it because its considered "normal"), its sometimes the woman (in which case he is seen as "henpecked", or "under the thumb"), but in most cases partnerships are relatively equal with decisions being taken jointly, one side compromising on one topic, the other compromising on another.

Society may have made good progress with eradicating conscious sexism, racism and homophobia, but we still have a long way to go before unconscious prejudices are a thing of the past :(
Part of this is the way stories about the couple are framed, and the other part is the way we choose to interpret them. For example, Harry is spied buying a latte for his wife...is he an attentive husband doing a nice thing or is she a spoiled brat demanding a treat? If I'm predisposed to thinking that she's got him whipped, then I'm going to think that she's told him to get his royal rear-end down the shop and fetch her a coffee!

From my own marriage - anyone who knows the first thing about my wife knows that she's a cheapskate when it comes to most things. As her dad used to say, "She could squeeze the sh!t out of a buffalo nickel!" (Nickels used to have buffalos pictured on them).

Anyone who knows me knows that if I have $20 in my pocket, or $50, or $100, I won't have it at the end of the day. I like to spend money.

Thirdly, anyone who knows my mom knows that she doesn't like any of her daughters-in-law and that no woman on earth is good enough for her boys, so anything that appears wrong in any of our relationships is automatically the wife's fault. Always.

When we moved back around family, we were setting up a new house and my mom came over to help. The wife had a list of stuff to buy, and I added that I wanted a trash can for the kitchen. I said, "And get a good one. A metal one. None of the plastic crap."

They left, then MrsTasty called me later from the store, with my mom standing right there, and said, "The only metal one they have costs $90, and I'm not paying $90 for a trash can!" We went back and forth a bit, but I convinced her to buy it. This all happened with my mom present.

Got it home, and my wife reiterated her displeasure with the cost, and I was happy with it, told her to quite being so cheap, again...Mom right there putting in her two cents as well. She also thought it was pretty expensive.

Mom gossips quite a bit, and we all share what Mon says about our wives, and what was the story my mom put out? "Oh, you know MrsTasty, she's a city girl <she absolutely is not> and she just had to have that $90 trash can! Poor Tasty, I don't know how he keeps her happy, he has to work so hard just to keep her in all the things she wants! Oh, she made it sound like she didn't want it, but she did!"

She saw what she wanted to see. Even with the facts right in front of her, even though she was right there when it happened, by the time she processed it, she turned it completely around.

I confronted her about it later, more just to see how she'd handle that, and I finally got an explanation out of her as to why, after I plainly told my wife to buy the trash can, and my wife plainly didn't want to, did she then tell everybody that it was my wife who did.

After a lot of hemming and hawing, a lot of denial, she finally shouted, "Well, we didn't raise you to go in for all that high-dollar stuff! It *has* to be her!"

We see what we want to see, and I think that's what happens with all the celebrity gossip around folks like Harry and Meg, Will and Kate, Charles, etc. Harry's always been portrayed as the wilder one, too, which seems to happen to the Number 2 kid. It's like the tabloids already have a role established for each person, then they craft their "reporting" to fit it.
 

Mountain Cat

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Yes, alas, people do see what they want to see.

Re Meghan, I didn't even realize she was black for a long while. Maybe late last summer, or sometime around when Archie was born. Basically because I never read the articles - I saw her picture, and assumed she was Mediterranean ancestry, assuming I thought about it at all. Since I had a Speckled Sussex bird here, I simply decided to read a bit more.... On a personal level, I've always thought Harry was the "hot" (as in personally to me attractive) grandson, but definitely way too young for me these days! But there are a lot of gingers in my family tree here. In fact, the family tree is nowadays so ginger as to make him look auburn rather than red-headed.

(I never was jealous of my brother and his two daughters - I never would have been happy with the attention from random strangers they'd always got, btw.)

"Celebrity" rags have always bored the gourd out of me - (bourd the gored?)

Very interesting about "henpecked". My rooster from last year ended up in the sous vide mainly because he "roo-pecked" his hens, and tried that on me as well. A couple hens would hen peck each other, but with size differential, they'd leave any roosters alone.

Further on men and women - as a woman back in my late 20's I needed a new car. Dad wanted to go with me, just for the fun of going with me, and I was happy to have him along for the "parental bonding". We hadn't done some serious bonding since I was a kid and would go hiking, fishing and hunting with him. Mind you, he knew nothing more about what was under the hood than I did - he could find the oil gauge and add new oil (as could I) but that was about it. I also let the salesMAN know I was purchasing the car with my OWN money.

Everything I asked - the salesman ignored me and talked to my dad. EVERYTHING. Salesman barely acknowledged my presence.

After we left, without my purchasing an otherwise-worthy car, Dad was like, "Why didn't you buy that? It rode well, price was right..."

Even after I explained, my Dad still didn't understand.

This sort of unintential (usually?) blindness still goes on. (On my Dad's part, I consider it unintentional.)
 
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MypinchofItaly

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I consider this thing for what it is, a gossip like many others in the world that refers to Royals/VIP,etc, and I don’t care very much about them. However I can only say that superficially I like Harry&Meghan : he is a nice young man, she is a beautiful wonderfully stylish woman. Are they somehow “revolutionary”? No. “Breaking rules”? Not sure.
Anyway, what annoys me though is the need by media to underline continuously that she is black, ex-actress, American and hey! she’s married a royal... like if she has something wrong and Harry is the poor little royal boy..Gosh....if someone wants to put down someone else, what’s better than demolish his (or her in this case), starting underlying where they come from?
“She/he is from that country, after all”
The other thing that makes my blood boiling, is when in general someone says “mind you, he/she is an actor/actress, they act and lye everyday ”..
I’ve known lots of non-actors/actresses who lied and acted better than any professional actors in the world.
 
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