My rolls aren't turning out so good

[Berties]

I think your issue might be lack of salt. I note you said that you followed the recipe to the letter, but 'no salt' - bread dough needs salt! It's part of the science of bread making. Realistically, the only three ingredients you need to make wholesome bread are flour, water, salt and yeast. Many recipes have other things like oil, sugar etc, but these are a matter of taste, and I never use them in my bread baking, yet my bread is good.

What I would do is this: put your flour in the bowl first, then add the salt to one side and your yeast to the other. Salt and yeast cannot make direct contact with one another or the yeast will die, so mix each one to the side of the bowl of flour and then work it all in together, by which time they'll each be mixed through the flour enough to be 'safe'.

Next add any other extra ingredients you are using such as sugar or oil. Then the liquid. Now, there's a lot of misunderstanding concerning temperature of the liquid. Back in the day when yeast was a lot less reliable than it is now, you had to use slightly warmish water in order to get it going; you don't need to do that now. In fact, many professional artisan bakers will tell you that 100% stone cold water is by far the better option, as cold water retards the growth of your yeast without killing it. What this means is that your dough will take longer to prove, but this retardation is when the flavour has time to develop fully. I not only use cold water in my bread, but I also put it in the fridge to prove to further slow down the process - the flavour is definitely improved! That said, do not ever use water that is anything above slightly warm, or hot - this will definitely inhibit or kill your yeast, and even if it does prove slightly, the end result will be a dense and heavy loaf. Add your liquid gradually; you're aiming for a soft and pliable dough that sticks to your hand but doesn't make a mess all over your hands either. Doing it by hand will get you used to how it should look and feel. Knead it until it's smooth and elastic before you prove.

One more point about yeast....Never use out of date yeast as it just won't work; if your yeast is fresh and/or well within the 'use by' date, then you don't need to prove it separately before adding to your flour. This was another method used back in the day when yeast was unreliable, and it had to be tested each time before use.

I hope this helps you a bit. Let me know how it goes.

Salt is the bakers friend and enemy ,a harvest plate where you shape dough and not wish it to rise you retard the yeast with salt
Salt in high concentrations can kill yeast yes. So can sugar, though salt is so much better at it. You see both are hygroscopic, meaning that they suck water out of stuff. This induces osmotic stress to the yeast cells leading eventually to cell breakdown (aka death).

On lower concentrations salt will throttle the yeast fermentation producing a richer and more uniform crumb.

Adding the salt early or later in the process will have a big effect on your dough, but that won't be because of the way it messes up with the yeast. Salt is supposed to coagulate gluten proteins, in a sense it "stiffens" the dough. On various situations this should happen late in the process

 

[pattyk]

You're welcome!

The 3 1/2 cups of flour in the recipe is enough to produce 12 rolls - I know they will look small, but if you've done everything else correctly, then they will rise and double in size, and further rise in the oven when you bake them. The rise your bread gets in the oven is known as 'oven spring', and you should ensure that your oven is at the correct temperature to achieve it. If you're only making 4 of these rolls, it's probably a contributing factor as to why they're a bit heavy and dense. The best way to divide your dough into 12 balls is to roll it into a long log. and divide the pieces equally with a sharp knife. Alternatively, what I do is weigh the dough as a whole, then divide it by 12 (or however many rolls the recipe specifies), and try and get each one as even in weight as possible. The recipe states 10 minutes baking time, and that really isn't too long a time for 12 small rolls - I actually give mine 12-13 minutes, but everyone's oven is different. I've checked the oven temperature in the recipe too, and that's correct too.

As long as you mix the salt thoroughly through your flour before adding the yeast, you'll be fine. You could just put the salt in the bowl first, top with the flour, then the yeast. When you mix it all together, it will be fine, just don't throw salt onto yeast directly, or vice versa. Try using active dry yeast as the recipe states, for the first couple of times you make the rolls - once you've mastered the technique, then use whatever yeast you prefer. Looking at the recipe you used, here's what I would do:

1. Combine the flour, yeast, sugar and salt as above.
2. Add it to the bowl of a stand mixer, or to a large bowl if you are using a handmixer with dough hooks.
3. Make a well in the centre and add the egg (at room temperature), the oil, and half the water.
4. Mix on a low speed, and gradually add the rest of the water until the dough comes together in a ball. At this point I would get my hands in there and keep bringing it together until you've cleaned the entire bowl, and your dough is in a nice ball.
   
5. Turn it out onto a lightly floured surface and knead for 4-5 minutes. Some people knead for 10 minutes, but I've found this to be unnecessary.
   
6. This is where I have the issue with the recipe you are using......Shape the dough and rest for 10 minutes?!?!?!? I would put your kneaded ball of dough into a lightly oiled bowl (lightly oil the dough too - it will keep it from forming a hard skin when proving) cover the bowl with a tea towel or cling wrap, and leave it to prove in a draught free area for approximately 1 hour, or until the dough has doubled in size - a doubling in size is the important bit here; it may take 40 minutes, or it may take the full hour. Keep an eye on it.
   
7. Once proved, take it out of the bowl gently onto a very lightly oiled surface; it will deflate, but don't actively punch it down or flatten all of the air out of it forcibly if you can help it. Just treat it gently.
   
8. Roll it out into the log as I said before, or weigh it for even better results. Divide into 12 balls, rolling until smooth. Do not use a floured surface for rolling the balls as they will slip, slide, and not play the game for you at all!
9. Place the balls in the tin you wish to bake them on - I use a cookie sheet that I dust generously with flour and sometimes a sprinkle of semolina, and place them 2 across by 6 down - and I leave a little space between them to spread and grow.
   
10. Pre-heat your oven to the temperature in the recipe. Again, either lightly dust with flour and cover with a clean tea towel, or loosely cover with cling film. Leave to prove again for about 30 minutes - you'll notice they've spread a little and bloomed out, they may even be touching, but that's absolutely fine.
    
11. If you want crusty rolls, put a roasting tray at the bottom of your oven and put a little water in there to create steam.
12. Bake for at least 10 minutes as the recipe states, but I would leave then a few minutes longer keeping a close eye on them. The best way to tell if bread is baked is to turn it over and tap it on the bottom; if you get a hollow sound, then it's baked. If not, put them back in for another couple of minutes.
    
13. Cool on a wire rack. If you want to keep your rolls soft, wrap them in a tea towel as soon as they come out of the oven, and let them cool fully before eating.

I hope this helps you out - do let me know how it goes, and if I can help any further. No problem!

 

[pattyk]

So, I made the dinner rolls as per the original recipe you used, and they were not good. I'm pretty sure it's because the recipe doesn't allow for any proving of the yeast. They were quite flavourless, and ended up being like little hard balls!! So, not one to be put off by these things, I went in search of a better recipe, and came up with Chef John's rosemary and honey dinner rolls. This recipe allows for proving the dough, and it didn't take nearly as long or as much effort as you think.

Here it is:

Ingredients for about 32-36 small dinner rolls:
1 packet (2 1/4 teaspoon) dry active yeast
1/4 cup warm water (100-110 degrees F.)
1 cup milk
4 tablespoon unsalted butter
1 or 2 tablespoon honey
1 teaspoon salt
2 tsp minced fresh rosemary leaves
about 3 cups unbleached all-purpose white flour, plus more if needed (NOTE: add about 2 1/2 cups of flour at the beginning of the mixing, and then add more in smaller increments until the dough just starts to pull away from the bowl. Remember, you can always add more, but can’t remove too much! Better a little too sticky than too stiff and dry.)
2 tbsp olive oil (to oil the dough)
egg wash (one egg beaten with a teaspoon of milk)
coarse sea salt

Method

1. Dissolve yeast in warm water in a small bowl. Set aside in a warm place until the yeast softens and begins to form a creamy foam, 10 to 15 minutes.
2. Combine 1 cup milk and butter in a small saucepan over low heat. Cook until butter is melted, 3 to 4 minutes; remove pan from heat.
3. Combine 2 cups flour, yeast mixture, honey, 1 teaspoon salt, rosemary, and milk mixture in the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with a dough hook; mix on low until no dry spots remain. Stir in 1/2 cup flour, 2 tablespoons at a time, mixing well after each addition. Continue adding flour until a firm dough forms that pulls away from the sides of the bowl. Knead on medium until elastic and soft but still tacky, about 6 minutes. Transfer dough to a clean bowl and coat with olive oil. Cover loosely with plastic wrap or a clean dish towel and let rise in a warm spot until doubled in size, about 1 1/2 hours.
4. Preheat oven to 375 degrees F (190 degrees C). Line a baking sheet with parchment paper or a silicone baking mat.
5. Transfer dough to a work surface and shape into a rectangle about 1-inch thick. Cut into 36 equally-sized pieces. Form each piece into a ball, pinching the seams on the underside, creating a smooth, round top.
6. Lightly beat egg with 1 teaspoon milk in a small bowl.
7. Transfer dough balls to the prepared baking sheet in 3 rows of 12, placing them close together but not touching. Brush tops lightly with the egg mixture and sprinkle with sea salt. Cover and let rise in a warm place until nearly doubled, 20 to 30 minutes.
8. Bake in the preheated oven until golden brown, about 20 minutes.

Mine are the ones in the pictures attached. The first picture is the rolls once finished proving, and the second one is the baked version.

Give them a go, it's a much better recipe than the one you've tried before.