Recreating Restaurant Dishes

[Ken Natton]

Okay, well here’s the discussion about the Australian soups.


One thing I have had some success with is recreating great dishes I have had in restaurants. Some years ago I had a working spell in South Wales, near Bridgend, and we found a superb restaurant called Follies. It was out on the coast, near Porthcawl. The chef did a starter that was minced pork and black pudding on a potato cake served with a mustard sauce. It was just scrummy. I kept going back just for that starter. Anyway, years later, I had a go at recreating it, and there is no false modesty when I say that there is little doubt that what I came up with was a pale shadow of what that chef produced, but it was nice and drew some genuine compliments.

But the one’s I have never had the first idea about how to recreate are a couple of the most fabulous soups I have ever eaten, that I had in a restaurant in Launceston, Tasmania. I’m afraid I cannot remember the name of the restaurant and we are talking close to twenty years ago. Anyway, the first one was Venison and Vegetable. The soup itself was a relatively thin broth, but very intensely flavoured. There were then big chunks of meat and al dente vegetables in it. I enjoyed it so much that, though I had already ordered a main course, I just had to ask for a second bowl. I really can’t tell you just how fabulous it was.

So okay, I suppose I can work out how to make a stock from venison, but I am not sure that I could get a soup anywhere near as intensely flavoured as that. Yeah I have seen Michelle Roux Junior talk a lot about intensifying flavours, but that is the bit that daunts me about having a go at trying to get anything like the soup I had that time.

The other soup, from the very same restaurant, was mushroom and walnut. It was a more creamy soup, much like you would expect a mushroom soup to be, but the flavours of mushroom and walnut were very subtle. It was a very delicate soup. So again, there are probably plenty of recipes for mushroom soup, and I have a feeling that one of the keys here would be using the right mushrooms to create the soup. But how in the name of goodness do you imbue it with flavours of walnut? Would it really be just boiling a load of walnuts to make a stock? I don’t have a lot of faith that I would get anything worth the effort.

Of course, what I really need is to talk to the chef who created them. But that ain’t gonna happen. So I guess I am just interested in people’s thoughts…

 

[Cinisajoy]

I think on the first broth, use the bones. Then it is more than likely reduced then enhanced with beef broth. The second I am not sure about.

 

[Morning Glory]

The other soup, from the very same restaurant, was mushroom and walnut.

Launcenston is known as a bit of a foodie destination. And there are black truffles to be found there. So I'm wondering if that mushroom and walnut soup might have had a hint of truffle. This could be replicated (sort of) using truffle oil. I will need to think about the walnut aspect (walnuts are grown locally to Launceston) - did the soup have any bits of walnut in it or was it completely smooth? The other key to this dish may be using dried mushrooms, which have a fantastic almost truffley depth of flavour.

 

[Ken Natton]

I will need to think about the walnut aspect (walnuts are grown locally to Launceston) - did the soup have any bits of walnut in it or was it completely smooth? The other key to this dish may be using dried mushrooms, which have a fantastic almost depth of flavour.

Well that’s the thing isn’t it? Good chefs use the locally available ingredients. I have a memory of eating Christmas dinner among the walnut trees in the mill manager’s garden that year. My only experience of eating Christmas dinner al fresco.

Not 100% on whether or not there were pieces of walnut in it. I have a feeling that there were, but even if there were, surely they would not be what was used to get the walnut flavour in the soup. My guess would be that they would be broken pieces of walnut sprinkled in just before serving. One thing is for certain – mushroom and walnut made a great combination.

Let me broaden the question. Soup making at catering college – would there be no more to making a stock than boiling whatever it is you want to make a stock from? Cinisajoy’s point about using the bones is interesting. I had taken it to be that bones and the various debris of whatever animal has been butchered were used to make a stock for the very reason that they weren’t useable for anything else. But Cinisajoy seems to be suggesting that bones make a better stock than meat? I can think of seeing several times on episodes of Masterchef, when they are making a seafood stock, they put a lot of effort into soft of squeezing and mushing and grinding the bits of whatever they made the stock from when they strain it. Of course, I get it that part of their problem is trying to get lots of flavour with severe time restrictions. I think your tip about using dried mushrooms is probably also a telling idea – would any particular mushroom type be best? And is dried mushroom going to be another one of those difficult to find ingredients?

 

[Morning Glory]

Re the walnut mushroom soup: Do you think it contained cream?
Dried Porcini are good... they really shouldn't be hard to find. Tesco's agai - I'm beginning to sound like I have shares in Tesco!!

Or you could cheat and use this:

 

[Ken Natton]

Re the walnut mushroom soup: Do you think it contained cream?
Dried Porcini are good... they really shouldn't be hard to find. Tesco's agai - I'm beginning to sound like I have shares in Tesco!!

Interesting. No I won't cheat, I'll use the dried Porcini. I'm beginning to think that step no.1 would be to try and make a straightforward mushroom soup - see if i can get anything like a decent result at that. Then, if I can, I might return to the idea of trying to add the walnut dimension.

Yes, I am pretty sure it was creamy, as I said, it had something of the look you would expect of a creamy mushroom soup, it was the flavours that were extraordinary.

 

[Cinisajoy]

You use the bones to get all the rich marrow flavor. Now most people add celery, onion and carrot to their stock pot. You can use the scrap meat too. Then strain well.

As to Masterchef: is that a real cooking show or one of the contest shows? I don't put much faith in the contest shows.

If you were in the US, I would recommend spending about $20 or looking in your local charity shop for a good basic cookbook. In the US, I would say Good Housekeeping, Better Homes and Gardens, Betty Crocker or The Joy of Cooking. Of those Joy of Cooking has more background information on making nearly everything. Seeing as you are in the UK, I will leave it to @morning glory to recommend a cookbook.

 

[Morning Glory]

Interesting. No I won't cheat, I'll use the dried Porcini. I'm beginning to think that step no.1 would be to try and make a straightforward mushroom soup - see if i can get anything like a decent result at that. Then, if I can, I might return to the idea of trying to add the walnut dimension.

Yes, I am pretty sure it was creamy, as I said, it had something of the look you would expect of a creamy mushroom soup, it was the flavours that were extraordinary.

I think you are right. Have a bash at mushroom soup first. Use a mix of a robust mushroom such as chestnut mushrooms (not anaemic white mushrooms) and dried Porcini. I will have a bash too...

 

[Ken Natton]

I think you are right. Have a bash at mushroom soup first. Use a mix of a robust mushroom such as chestnut mushrooms (not anaemic white mushrooms) and dried Porcini. I will have a bash too...

Now, Morning Glory, here’s the interesting point. I’ve just been searching mushroom soup recipes online and all of them are based either on vegetable or chicken stock. Well, the one exception is the Jamie Oliver recipe. He talks about frying – or sautéing – the mushrooms with other ingredients and then using ‘the stock’ which I take to mean that natural fluid you do get when you fry mushrooms. What none of them talk about is making a mushroom stock by boiling mushrooms. Anyway, I have a growing enthusiasm for this idea now. I am going to be very interested in what results you get as well. Unfortunately, I am away this weekend, but I am going to source some ingredients soon and see what I can come up with…

 

[Morning Glory]

Now, Morning Glory, here’s the interesting point. I’ve just been searching mushroom soup recipes online and all of them are based either on vegetable or chicken stock. Well, the one exception is the Jamie Oliver recipe. He talks about frying – or sautéing – the mushrooms with other ingredients and then using ‘the stock’ which I take to mean that natural fluid you do get when you fry mushrooms. What none of them talk about is making a mushroom stock by boiling mushrooms. Anyway, I have a growing enthusiasm for this idea now. I am going to be very interested in what results you get as well. Unfortunately, I am away this weekend, but I am going to source some ingredients soon and see what I can come up with…

Yes. I would think most recipes add stock. Chicken stock being light, would be an obvious choice. But I'm not sure its needed. I'm thinking mushrooms sauteed in butter then sherry added. That is something I've done before - mushrooms love sherry (and other alcohol). Alternatively, instead of sherry, brandy (flamed). And a touch of garlic... the recipe is developing as I type this!

Boiling mushrooms wouldn't work, I think. You have to coax every bit of flavour out of them before you add any water. But as I've never boiled mushrooms, perhaps I'm making assumptions.

I'll be very interested to hear about your experiments, @Ken Natton.

 

[Yorky]

As far as I remember I've never boiled mushrooms in water, always fried in some kind of oil or butter. However, I have added them to sauces and effectively cooked them like that with the sauce virtually boiling.

I am about to repeat that in following the idea of carbonara sauce. [As per @The Velvet Curtain]

 

[alexander]

This is an interesting discussion. I have made mushroom soup and I've used dried mushrooms which do taste fab. But to get back to the thread - then I think it is very hard to recreate dishes eaten in restaurants. This is partly to do with the remembered tastes of things which can be changed by the experience. I'm not saying this very well but what I mean is that things can seem to taste great when you are feeling great and the company is good.

 

[The Velvet Curtain]

This is an interesting discussion. I have made mushroom soup and I've used dried mushrooms which do taste fab. But to get back to the thread - then I think it is very hard to recreate dishes eaten in restaurants. This is partly to do with the remembered tastes of things which can be changed by the experience. I'm not saying this very well but what I mean is that things can seem to taste great when you are feeling great and the company is good.

That's very true, it has been shown that location, ambience and expectation all affect the way food tastes.

I've never tried to recreate something that I've had in a restaurant, but I have certainly taken inspiration and made something that borrows from it, using ingrediants that I can source.

 

[Ken Natton]

I haven’t forgotten about any of the things discussed here, I do intend to have a go at the mushroom soup and soon; there are reasons to do with work commitments and family events that are why the right opportunity has not yet presented itself. However, I have been thinking, the cogs have been turning slowly, and there are some realisations I have made about the walnut flavour. I was thinking about the fact that I have seen certainly Tom Kerridge, and one or two other TV chefs do some recipe with nuts in them and they do this where they toast them very quickly in a hot frying pan, and they all use this same phrase – “to get them to release their natural oils”. So then I started to think about how you would get enough oil from actual walnuts, and started to think about how in Tasmania, where they have lots of walnut trees, they probably have a factory where they make walnut oil. That’s a point, I thought, I wonder if you can get walnut oil in this country. Ha, I thought, I wonder if that’ll be one of these difficult to find ingredients. But no, it isn’t. Hell, even Asda has walnut oil. So now I’m left feeling a little bit dim. Do we think that is how to impart walnut flavour to the soup? With walnut oil? Sure, sprinkle some actual walnuts in the final soup, but the flavour in the soup comes from the oil, right? Huh. Boiling walnuts. Whoever thought that was a good idea?

 

[Morning Glory]

I haven’t forgotten about any of the things discussed here, I do intend to have a go at the mushroom soup and soon; there are reasons to do with work commitments and family events that are why the right opportunity has not yet presented itself. However, I have been thinking, the cogs have been turning slowly, and there are some realisations I have made about the walnut flavour. I was thinking about the fact that I have seen certainly Tom Kerridge, and one or two other TV chefs do some recipe with nuts in them and they do this where they toast them very quickly in a hot frying pan, and they all use this same phrase – “to get them to release their natural oils”. So then I started to think about how you would get enough oil from actual walnuts, and started to think about how in Tasmania, where they have lots of walnut trees, they probably have a factory where they make walnut oil. That’s a point, I thought, I wonder if you can get walnut oil in this country. Ha, I thought, I wonder if that’ll be one of these difficult to find ingredients. But no, it isn’t. Hell, even Asda has walnut oil. So now I’m left feeling a little bit dim. Do we think that is how to impart walnut flavour to the soup? With walnut oil? Sure, sprinkle some actual walnuts in the final soup, but the flavour in the soup comes from the oil, right? Huh. Boiling walnuts. Whoever thought that was a good idea?

I made my version of this soup yesterday. Quite right re the walnuts. I toasted them the bring out the flavour. And I added a swirl of walnut oil on top. I'll post the recipe and photo as a new thread and link it back here.