Today's Question

[classic33]

If you eat mushrooms, can you call yourself a vegetarian?

Do vegetarians eat mushrooms? I've wondered about that. Then the name "vegetarian" is a misnomer, since mushrooms (and yeast, for that matter) are actually more closely related to animals like us than to plants. Maybe "anticarnivorians" would be a better name.

This question came from a big-shot research scientist at Arizona State University. He didn't include his title with his note, but I recognized his name.

The real question is why a big-shot research scientist at ASU or anywhere else for that matter would ask somebody like me anything. I'm sure there is a good explanation, but it escapes me at the moment. Anyway, it is true that while mushrooms are subjects of a separate taxonomic kingdom than plants and animals they are more closely related to latter than the former.

And apparently most vegetarians and vegans eat mushrooms as well as their cousins, yeast and so forth.

The thinking seems to be that since mushrooms don't have brains they can't feel pain so they're fair game.

Mushroom brains. That's a creepy thought, is it. As for calling them anticarnivorians, suit yourself.

I've always wondered about this: How can we "change the course of history" when "history" hasn't even become the past (or "history") yet? Does it mean we have the ability to change what the supposed or expected history was to have been?

Huh? I think someone has been thinking too much.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/claythompson/2014/09/23/mushrooms-vegetables-vegetarian/16119735/

 

[Cinisajoy]

He's bored, he is looking for a grant, a vegetarian asked him that question, he is working on another PhD and needs a dissertation.

As to the other question, I have no idea. Can you prove mushrooms don't have brains?

 

[buckytom]

I answered no because mushrooms go well with my steaks.

I'm a fungi to be with... really, I am.

 

[sidevalve]

It lives - you kill it - you eat - end of story

 

[Ken Natton]

Mushrooms are not vegetables. Not got a problem with that. Mushrooms are nearer to animals than they are to vegetables. Not so sure about that one. My understanding is that plants, animals and fungi have completely separate paths all the way back to the first groups of simple, multicellular organisms. Indeed, as I understand it, the evidence is that all three groups made the transition from single cellularity to multi-cellularity independently of each other. The three groups have a common ancestor – as evidenced by that fact that they are all based on the same DNA, but their divergence pre-dates multicellularity. So whence the idea that that any two of them are any closer than the third, I’m not so sure.


As for vegetarians, this is really the common problem of hanging a bunch of expectations along with any supposedly classifying lable. It’s a practice that constantly clashes up against the reality of human diversity. People, of course, are perfectly entitled to choose what they do and what they don’t wish to eat. Some members of my wife’s family won’t eat pork. Other’s won’t eat any kind of fish. Nothing religious about it in either case. But for some reason utterly unfathomable to me, that’s the choices they have made. But if you try to invent some etymologically appropriate term for the practice and then engage in some semantic pedantry in defining the expectations that should go along with the term, it is highly likely that some of the supposed adherents of the practice will challenge those boundaries. Not because they are incorrigible rebels but because they can make their own choices.

 

[Rocklobster]

Why people would willingly deprive themselves of any type of food group that is available to them is beyond me...I can understand if somebody doesn't like a certain flavor or texture, but to make a blanket decision seems unnecessary...

 

[buckytom]

Agreed, Rock, except for health reasons of course.

While I am both a religious and spiritual person, I can't imagine believing in something that would prevent me from enjoying any type of food. Yes, I get the tradition and historical aspects, but religion is governed by spirituality, and spirituality is a living, flowing thing. The shortcomings of religion are that it becomes inflexible.

I do, however, respect a petson who feels that animals are somewhat sentient and should not be our food. The problem there is where do you draw the line? How intelligent does something need to be to not be on the menu?

This brings us back to the mushroom argument.

Hmm, push comes to shove, a little roast leg of Ken, or a Yorky curry might fit the bill...

 

[Morning Glory]

Why people would willingly deprive themselves of any type of food group that is available to them is beyond me...I can understand if somebody doesn't like a certain flavor or texture, but to make a blanket decision seems unnecessary...

It is interesting - a while ago I won the cooking challenge on another forum. So I had to choose the next theme and judge it. I chose 'vegetarian' as the theme. There are quite a few professional chefs on that forum, mainly from America and quite a few said they wouldn't be entering! A number of other members also said they never cooked anything vegetarian. Several who did make entries included prawns! There was quite a discussion which ensued and it transpired that many of the American members didn't really understand what counted as vegetarian. In stark contrast a professional chef in Scandinavia had a whole vegetarian menu in his restaurant.

 

[buckytom]

That's unfortunate that you've developed such opinion of my countrymen, morning glory. I think what you experienced was what I call the pub effect, in a way.

I used to hang out in a fairly authentic Irish pub in NYC many years ago, and often met many tourists from all over the world who were in for a few drinks for the night.

After a while, the question about how they were enjoying their time here would inevitably come up. Almost all of the tourists, in various states of inebriation, would pay compliments to this great nation. All except for the Brits. Maybe because they felt close to home being in a pub that truely resembled one that they were used to, or maybe it's just tbe standard British hubris after a few drinks (same as us), but I found it interesting that they had no problem mentioning how much they loved America, but hated Americans. No problem insulting their hosts.

Initially, I took this as an insult until a wise old bartender pulled me aside and told me this: that the complaintants had only seen a sliver of what America has to offer during the day, but has spent the majority of their time, every night in fact, in pubs experiencing the worst of America; her alcoholics, drunks, and other crappy folks.

I think you may have run into a cooking site with the lesser of my brethren. I guess by chance, though, not alcohol fueled.

 

[Morning Glory]

That's unfortunate that you've developed such opinion of my countrymen, morning glory. I think what you experienced was what I call the pub effect, in a way.

Its not my opinion at all! I regard Americans like everyone else - some of them I like and some I don't. This wasn't to do with my views at all. I was just reporting factually what happened. I think I was just rather surprised that professional Chefs would not consider cooking vegetarian food. I've seen similar responses on this forum (not necessarily from Americans) to questions about how often people eat vegetarian meals. I'm sure a lot depends on regions and cultural backgrounds. In New York and LA, I'm sure there are many chefs providing vegetarian meals. And, no doubt, in other regions of America too.

 

[Cinisajoy]

It is interesting - a while ago I won the cooking challenge on another forum. So I had to choose the next theme and judge it. I chose 'vegetarian' as the theme. There are quite a few professional chefs on that forum, mainly from America and quite a few said they wouldn't be entering! A number of other members also said they never cooked anything vegetarian. Several who did make entries included prawns! There was quite a discussion which ensued and it transpired that many of the American members didn't really understand what counted as vegetarian. In stark contrast a professional chef in Scandinavia had a whole vegetarian menu in his restaurant.

Many vegetarians here do eat fish, they are usually referred to as pesky tarians. (And I know that is misspelled). If you had said vegan, you would have been understood.

And sweetie, you do come across as very dismissive of Americans.

Now back to the vegetarians, how big is Scandinavia and what is the population? Quick look shows roughly 928,000 km and 21 million people. The United States is roughly 9.8 million km with a population of over 324 million people. Where Tom lives has over 8.5 million people by itself.

So please do not judge all American professional chefs by those very few you met on a forum. Just where Tom works there are at least 8,000 chefs in restaurants,that is one chef per restaurant, not counting another 16,000 eating places.
In my town population 100,000, there are 299 restaurants and eateries.
So now how many American chefs were on that forum and what kind of restaurant did they work in?

Though yes, in certain regions of the US, it is harder to find vegetarian dishes in restaurants.

Now what I would comment about the Brits and cooking could be summed up as either Indian food or fried fish and chips, or the occasional roast and pudding, or soft boiled eggs. And there is no variations in your fish and chips shops. You will get the same at every place.

Note: those observations are from reading about Brits and food on one forum. Which means I may be totally accurate or I could be completely off base.

 

[Cinisajoy]

Its not my opinion at all! I regard Americans like everyone else - some of them I like and some I don't. This wasn't to do with my views at all. I was just reporting factually what happened. I think I was just rather surprised that professional Chefs would not consider cooking vegetarian food. I've seen similar responses on this forum (not necessarily from Americans) to questions about how often people eat vegetarian meals. I'm sure a lot depends on regions and cultural backgrounds. In New York and LA, I'm sure there are many chefs providing vegetarian meals. And, no doubt, in other regions of America too.

Oh and here, some magazines tout doing Meatless Mondays and Tuesday Tacos.

 

[Morning Glory]

So please do not judge all American professional chefs by those very few you met on a forum.

I wasn't. I wasn't judging all American chefs at all. I was just reporting what happened on that forum. In fact, there is a lot of prejudice here in the UK against vegetarianism (although that is changing). Many restaurants only offer one vegetarian option on their menu and there are plenty of folks here who wouldn't dream of eating a vegetarian meal.

As I said in my follow up post:

i'm sure a lot depends on regions and cultural backgrounds. In New York and LA, I'm sure there are many chefs providing vegetarian meals. And, no doubt, in other regions of America too.

Re pescetarians - my daughter is one - they are not vegetarians. Vegetarians are not vegans either. Personally, I think veganism is a much more difficult thing to achieve and I also find it illogical (from a moral stand point - I'm not talking about those who are vegan because of allergies). So you see, I'm prejudiced against veganism!

 

[sidevalve]

I do, however, respect a petson who feels that animals are somewhat sentient and should not be our food.

Good point however I believe it was in 'The hitch-hikers guide to the galaxy' where they created and animal that wanted to be eaten and could actually say so - if such was achieved what would the 'sentient' argument have to say then ?

 

[Rocklobster]

My twisted logic tells me that vegetarians want to wipe out thousands of species of animals while us meat eaters want to support their existence...so, who is more humane? Hmmmm???