Is there ever a valid use of the word ‘authentic’?

[MypinchofItaly]

A cold case of unauthentic italian mama from Bologna

I once heard a guy on the radio – and I should be clear, he was not talking particularly about food but more generally – and his unequivocal contention was that the word ‘authentic’ is only ever used as a way to say ‘I is bet’er ‘n you.’


I wasn’t quite so unequivocal as him, but I was certainly already aware of the spurious use of the word in a food context. I recall talking with someone once whose particular bee in his bonnet was about the fact that British people tend to put mushrooms in their Bolognese sauce. ‘Authentic’ Bolognese sauce does not have mushrooms, he contended. Now he might have a point about what an average Italian mama from Bologna would and wouldn’t use, but at the time, my thought about it was the mistaken idea that what the average British person made and saw fit to call Bolognese sauce was made inauthentic only by the presence of mushrooms. But recently, and I’m sorry to mention it again but it is just too pertinent to this point – on that Rick Stein episode in Bologna, he was invited to a typical Italian mama’s house who cooked for him a Bolognese sauce. So what do you think she used? Pure beef? 50% beef and 50% pork? No, she used tuna fish. And if you think that I am suggesting that authentic Bolognese sauce uses tuna fish, you are missing the point. The point is, if you are an actual Italian mama from Bologna, you are not constrained by any spurious notions of authenticity.


So another excellent case in point, another dish that seems to arouse passions around ideas of authenticity, is Hungarian Goulash. It’s an old peasant dish, as probably everyone is aware. Except that, the dish, as prepared by actual Hungarian shepherds on actual Hungarian hillsides, was not so identifiably constant. Until, in the 19th century, Austro-Hungarian chefs picked up on the dish and came up with a restaurantified version of it. And it is that restaurantified version that people think of when they talk of ‘authentic’ Hungarian Goulash.


And the other case in point I would like to cite is Stroganoff. That’s a dish I have seen demoed by various TV chefs, including Keith Floyd, the Two Fat Ladies, The Hairy Bikers and yes, Rick Stein. And all of them begin by telling you that the dish was invented by a particular chef. Take a wild guess at what his name was. The key here is that the dish he invented is Beef’Stroganoff. There are those who get very upset by the idea that you should make a dish and call it Chicken Stroganoff. But I make Chicken Stroganoff. Okay, so maybe, if it offends you so much, maybe I should call it chicken in a sour cream sauce. But don’t tell me that I shouldn’t make it, cause here’s the deal with Chicken Stroganoff. Its yummy.


So tell me, in a food context, is there ever a valid use of the word ‘authentic’?

 

[Ken Natton]

Well, Rick Stein first met the Italian mama in question in a professional kitchen of some kind, where she was one of several women making tortellini with great speed and expertise. She seemed authentic enough to me, though granted I am not from Italy, let alone Bologna.

 

[MypinchofItaly]

Ok, it was only a quip..but for all these reasons, Bolognese sauce ( ragù ) made with tuna fish is just a personal alternative. Certainly good but not Bolognese sauce.

Well, Rick Stein first met the Italian mama in question in a professional kitchen of some kind, where she was one of several women making tortellini with great speed and expertise. She seemed authentic enough to me, though granted I am not from Italy, let alone Bologna.

 

[Ken Natton]

Ok, it was only a quip..but for all these reasons, Bolognese sauce ( ragù ) made with tuna fish is just a personal alternative. Certainly good but not Bolognese sauce.

I think that was the point that was being made. Actually, there was quite a bit of interesting insight offered in that program that I had not grasped. I knew that spaghetti is not generally what Italians would have with Bolognese sauce anyway, but I hadn't thought about the point they made that spaghetti is not from Bologna anyway. According to that program, spaghetti is from Naples. And the other surprise for me was that, according to the discussions on that program, spaghetti is not a pasta even Italians eat from fresh, generally spaghetti is meant to be dried. And again, I had previously seen the point that ragu is something that would normally be cooked for hours, possibly even days, whereas the British regard what they call Bolognese sauce as a convenience food, popular precisely because it can be cooked in about 20 minutes.

Generally, Mypinchofitaly, Italian food is my favourite. I would very much like to start a new thread specifically to discuss Italian food. But it's late now. Let me chew it over for another day and I'll try to put together a decent starting post for a thread about Italian food...

 

[MypinchofItaly]

I'm glad you like Italian food..our food is so various, a lot of traditional recipes and each region have yours, often each areas of the same cities. Then there are also personal taste, the personal recipes as a questionable Bolognese sauce with tuna ( ), and the families recipes "my grandmother made so, and so this is the only recipe I accept in the univers"..
But some recipes must be untouchables! And by the way, I confirm you that spaghetti aren't fresh pasta, instead of tagliatelle (egg fresh pasta). And Yes, spaghetti are from Napoli, tagliatelle from Bologna/Emilia Romagna. The origin and the cooking way of Ragù is a much debated topic..if you want to follow the tradition, Ragù is cooked for 3 hours, but not all people have this time! So, at least you can cook it for 1 hour and half...but not 20 minutes!!! Sometimes also italians are confused about cook.
Ok Ken Natton, see you on next Italian food thread

I think that was the point that was being made. Actually, there was quite a bit of interesting insight offered in that program that I had not grasped. I knew that spaghetti is not generally what Italians would have with Bolognese sauce anyway, but I hadn't thought about the point they made that spaghetti is not from Bologna anyway. According to that program, spaghetti is from Naples. And the other surprise for me was that, according to the discussions on that program, spaghetti is not a pasta even Italians eat from fresh, generally spaghetti is meant to be dried. And again, I had previously seen the point that ragu is something that would normally be cooked for hours, possibly even days, whereas the British regard what they call Bolognese sauce as a convenience food, popular precisely because it can be cooked in about 20 minutes.

Generally, Mypinchofitaly, Italian food is my favourite. I would very much like to start a new thread specifically to discuss Italian food. But it's late now. Let me chew it over for another day and I'll try to put together a decent starting post for a thread about Italian food...

 

[sidevalve]

As to the original question - you invent it, you cook it and that is the ONLY way any dish can be 'authentic' [in the true meaning of the word]. As soon as it passes on [like the game 'Chinese whispers' it will change. It may still be called XYZ and it may taste better but it will not be 'authentic'. Still who cares anyway - this is food, it is meant to be enjoyed. We often leave some spices out of a recipe because we don't like them - it may be less 'authentic' but we like it and surely that is the point.