How do we communicate?

@MypinchofItaly
A very interesting, thoughtful topic. Communication, conversation and language in general are interesting and subjective topics. We all use English to communicate on this forum. That does not mean that we all speak the same language. There are many opportunities for misunderstanding. Even in the U.S. there are regional differences in language. I agree with @morning glory that emojis help. Humor can easily be confusing. We are a very close family and frequently use sarcasm, quick wit and even what would sound like insults to outsiders. We get it but outsiders would not.

For many years my Parents owned Dairy Queen franchises. For 5 years I was general manager for 3 stores and in-store manager for their flagship store. There is a state sponsored program to encourage the hiring of people with impaired hearing. I took a basic sign language course to facilitate communication. That was an extreme challenge. Sign language is very subjective and not at all literal when compared to the spoken language. Body language, facial expressions, a flick of the wrist can change the meaning of what is signed.

I am guilty of being a chatter box. I also tend to be overly familiar. Familiarity is a regional characteristic. We never meet strangers.

:thankyou:@MypinchofItaly for a thought provoking conversation.
 
ElizabethB said:
@MypinchofItaly
A very interesting, thoughtful topic. Communication, conversation and language in general are interesting and subjective topics. We all use English to communicate on this forum. That does not mean that we all speak the same language. There are many opportunities for misunderstanding. Even in the U.S. there are regional differences in language. I agree with @morning glory that emojis help. Humor can easily be confusing. We are a very close family and frequently use sarcasm, quick wit and even what would sound like insults to outsiders. We get it but outsiders would not.

For many years my Parents owned Dairy Queen franchises. For 5 years I was general manager for 3 stores and in-store manager for their flagship store. There is a state sponsored program to encourage the hiring of people with impaired hearing. I took a basic sign language course to facilitate communication. That was an extreme challenge. Sign language is very subjective and not at all literal when compared to the spoken language. Body language, facial expressions, a flick of the wrist can change the meaning of what is signed.

I am guilty of being a chatter box. I also tend to be overly familiar. Familiarity is a regional characteristic. We never meet strangers.

:thankyou:@MypinchofItaly for a thought provoking conversation.
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Dear @ElizabethB :), I am very happy that you find this topic stimulating. Let's say it came from some comments with @Duck59 that intrigued me and I wanted to extend the conversation somehow. Communication has many facets.
What an interesting story yours, like @classic33 !
and I also agree with @morning glory that the emoticons sometimes "save" a little speech or just lighten it .. but there is also the other side of the coin .. sometimes emoticons can mislead ...
 
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You remind me of my Father's story. His parents spoke very little English. They spoke Cajun French which is very different from Parisian French. When Dad started school he was held back a year until his use of English improved. He attended Catholic school run by Brothers. If the children were caught speaking French on the school grounds they were punished. Consequently Dad did not teach his children to speak French. He did not want us to be stigmatized. Something I regret. Both Mom and Dad demanded that we used language properly without slang or accent. When I have traveled through the U.S. people I meet never guess that I am from Louisiana. They sometimes guess that I am from the south - not from an accent but a slower, softer manner of speaking. Vowels are more rounded.

There are still rural areas where English is spoken with a very heavy Cajun accent. Unintelligible to outsiders.
 
ElizabethB said:
You remind me of my Father's story. His parents spoke very little English. They spoke Cajun French which is very different from Parisian French. When Dad started school he was held back a year until his use of English improved. He attended Catholic school run by Brothers. If the children were caught speaking French on the school grounds they were punished. Consequently Dad did not teach his children to speak French. He did not want us to be stigmatized. Something I regret. Both Mom and Dad demanded that we used language properly without slang or accent. When I have traveled through the U.S. people I meet never guess that I am from Louisiana. They sometimes guess that I am from the south - not from an accent but a slower, softer manner of speaking. Vowels are more rounded.

There are still rural areas where English is spoken with a very heavy Cajun accent. Unintelligible to outsiders.
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Oh really?
I did not imagine ... now I know something more.
Your dad did it to protect you from being excluded then .. has preserved your language and sociality.
It is terrible to be discriminated against not speaking the same language. And in those days there were no emoticons or google translate (when it works!)
 
@ElizabethB
you recall me that when I was in elementary school, a new child from Campania arrived in my class in the middle of the school year. It seemed to me 1980 or 1981 and there was a terrible earthquake in southern Italy, Campania, Irpinia area. This poor child (traumatized) arrived with his family in northern Italy. He spoke a very strong dialect of those parts close to the Neapolitan. Nobody wanted to understand him. It is different from not being able to understand. He was Italian, not a martian. I became his friend, for me he was just a child.
 
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@MypinchofItaly
In the U.S. there is much controversy about language in schools, We are an English speaking nation. There is much attention paid to Spanish speaking individuals - legal citizens or illegals. In many states Schools are required to treat English as a second language. I will not go on a rant. I find this practice disturbing.
 
Communication is an amazing thing, we can get to know our neighbours across the pond, learn about each others cultures, make each other smile and laugh, that makes it a beautiful thing.
Unfortunately some use it to lie about their life growing up, tell stories that simply aren't true to make themselves seem interesting, intelligent and worldwise because in truth no one will check up them to call them out, this is the ugly side. The beauty always wins over the ugly :thumbsup:
 
ElizabethB said:
@MypinchofItaly
In the U.S. there is much controversy about language in schools, We are an English speaking nation. There is much attention paid to Spanish speaking individuals - legal citizens or illegals. In many states Schools are required to treat English as a second language. I will not go on a rant. I find this practice disturbing.
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My Yorkshire accent was thick enough to cut with a knife in my first seven years at school. T'was only the older teachers that could understand me fully.

The system did its best to get rid of the accent, making things worse to boot in't progress.

Two words, which depending on how they are spoken, and head movement, can be a mild rebuke to a full blown insult.

Nay Lad
 
classic33 said:
My Yorkshire accent was thick enough to cut with a knife in my first seven years at school. T'was only the older teachers that could understand me fully.

The system did its best to get rid of the accent, making things worse to boot in't progress.

Two words, which depending on how they are spoken, and head movement, can be a mild rebuke to a full blown insult.

Nay Lad
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I think that years ago there was a real lack of a correct pedagogical path. Today everyone seems to be geniuses of communication and woe to say a single word out of place that can impact the sensitivity (or susceptibility) of children who are often anything but traumatizable. But remembering what I myself saw with my own eyes, a child from southern Italy with a very strong Neapolitan accent almost without knowing how to speak Italian, watched by everyone as something to punish, in an Italy unknown to him in which the words that they were addressed were ... "nay lad".
Communication has certainly(?) made some progress, a bit like in all things, but I wonder what price has been charged to those who at that time had the "misfortune" to be born in the wrong place ...
 
MypinchofItaly said:
I think that years ago there was a real lack of a correct pedagogical path. Today everyone seems to be geniuses of communication and woe to say a single word out of place that can impact the sensitivity (or susceptibility) of children who are often anything but traumatizable. But remembering what I myself saw with my own eyes, a child from southern Italy with a very strong Neapolitan accent almost without knowing how to speak Italian, watched by everyone as something to punish, in an Italy unknown to him in which the words that they were addressed were ... "nay lad".
Communication has certainly(?) made some progress, a bit like in all things, but I wonder what price has been charged to those who at that time had the "misfortune" to be born in the wrong place ...
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Changed, but at what cost.

And when you see how others who are deaf or unable to talk and how they manage without the spoken word in daily life.

It's a case of slow down what you are saying, and remembering to face them whilst talking. When that fails I've reverted to pen and paper, at work.
 
Fascinating thread @MypinchofItaly ! And very topical.

MypinchofItaly said:
Communication has certainly(?) made some progress
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I'm not entirely sure about this. Certainly the means of communication have made huge progress over the past 20 years or so and I think is directly responsible for breaking down social, economic, sexual and racial barriers and creating a more tolerant world. I would like to think that your young Neapolitan friend would not encounter similar problems today. The flip side of this is that whilst we are more tolerant of each other, we are less tolerant of what we say to each other. Whilst I would never condone bad manners, let alone personal insult for any reason, there is irony in being more tolerant of belief and behaviour whilst at the same time being less tolerant of free speech. I forget who once said something along the lines of "I totally disagree with what he said, but with my life will defend his right to say it"

Being "offended" seems to be the latest, must have fashion accessory. It is interesting how the #me too phenomenon is developing, along with the backlash from some very eminent French ladies. Communication of a romantic nature is getting a bit of a shake up!
 
epicuric said:
I forget who once said something along the lines of "I totally disagree with what he said, but with my life will defend his right to say it
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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

This is generally attributed to Voltaire, though there seems to be a doubt about whether he used these words or whether this is a mistranslation.
 
For my final dissertation, I had to choose an extract from an "everyday" text and a "literary" one. The idea was to do a textual analysis of the two works and compare and contrast. We had to look at various literary and linguistic theories and provide arguments for or against such theories.

The two books I used were a Prague travel guide and the Milan Kundera novel Ignorance, which is set in Prague. It was an interesting task. I must have done it reasonably well, though, because I got 89% as a mark, which I can assure you was somewhat higher than I'd anticipated. I won't bore anyone with the details too much, but I found it intriguing because I felt it helped me as both a reader and a writer.
 
For my Undergraduate l dissertation I wrote about Méliès an early French film-maker. This entailed translating books from the French as there was little written about him in English in those days. That in itself was interesting as my French is, to say the least, basic. If only on-line translation tools had existed in those days! Crude as they sometimes are, it would have saved me a lot of time.

What reminded me of my dissertation was @Duck59 mentioning comparing and contrasting different styles of prose in his dissertation. As a starting point for the dissertation I used an example from a Kodak manual for amateur film-makers from the 1950's - my point being that the words it used, 'close-up' for example could be traced back to Méliès's early practice in the 1800's.
 
Its interesting the discussion about body language/facial expression. My Mum was totally blind (since before I was born) so obviously couldn't use such cues. I must say I don't think you could say she ever misunderstood or misjudged anyone because of that! She had no trouble communicating at all. So perhaps visual cues are not quite as important as we tend to think.
 
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