Restaurants and vegan options

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

[Mod.edit: this post a following few moved to form new topic (MG)]

I just saw this on CNN.com. It's a good thing Perth is over 3,000 miles from SatNav...

"Celebrity Chef John Mountain announces in a Facebook post that he is banning vegans from his restaurant Fyre in Perth, Australia."

CD

This comment sadly says it all.

"Please go find another kebab shop somewhere that's happy to give you that plastic rubbish you enjoy to eat so much.

That just tells me he isn't that good a chef if he thinks that. Oddly though they don't seem to be able to tell the difference between vegetarian and vegan because they start by saying if you don't eat meat, and end saying all vegans banned.

Personally I've no time of day for people like that especially if catering is their business.

 

[caseydog]

This comment sadly says it all.



That just tells me he isn't that good a chef if he thinks that. Oddly though they don't seem to be able to tell the difference between vegetarian and vegan because they start by saying if you don't eat meat, and end saying all vegans banned.

Personally I've no time of day for people like that especially if catering is their business.

I am guessing that what he refers to as "plastic rubbish" is tofu. That's a bit harsh, although I have tried tofu a few times, and don't like it. I know that it is a good plant-based source of protein, but it just isn't my thing.

Instead of "banning" vegans, he could have just said, "We don't have any vegan options on our menu." Then vegans would just choose to go someplace else for dinner. No need to offend people.

CD

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

I am guessing that what he refers to as "plastic rubbish" is tofu. That's a bit harsh, although I have tried tofu a few times, and don't like it. I know that it is a good plant-based source of protein, but it just isn't my thing.

Instead of "banning" vegans, he could have just said, "We don't have any vegan options on our menu." Then vegans would just choose to go someplace else for dinner. No need to offend people.

CD

Exactly, though I suspect the plastic stuff is quite a lot of the vegan cheese, most burgers/sauages (think maccers and KFC/subway) and seiten, not tofu. We've just thrown away some new stuff (it was seiten) that our supermarket has brought in. When I opened it, it maintained the shape it had in the vacuum seal. It still had a shiny plastic look to it and even after cooking was awful. Hubby will eat more than I do and we wouldn't normally throw anything away but this wasn't fit for the chooks even (it literally went to the compost bin). I've another packet of a different flavour from that company. I doubt it is any better.

Tofu just needs to be prepared correctly. In countries that it is traditionally used in, it actually isn't a neat replacement, but a supplement to it and often served alongside meat, prepared correctly though.

I've been served it on the passed where I got up and walked out. They literally (and this was supposedly a Christmas meal) opened the container and put the entire thing on the plate cold, then tipped the plate to drain what they could off it. Veg was in a bowl on a table, so all we got was a undrained, unseasoned, unflavoured and unheated slab of cheap commercial tofu. The stupid thing is, that they bought it in solely for those not eating meat and served 4 portions of this tofu per person!

I didn't eat tofu for a long time after that, but flavoured versions in the UK came out in supermarkets that we liked, and then we travelled to countries that knew how to prepare it and that made a massive difference.

Now we eat it almost everyday but we're in a country with a massive Asian population and they do know how to prepare and cook it properly. That's the key.

If I served you a slab of chicken uncooked, you'd not eat it. You'd also soon get very bored of boiled chicken if that was the only way people knew how to cook it. No seasoning, just boil in water and if you're lucky, drain it. That's what/similar to what people do with tofu and expect to like it and they seem surprised when they find it awful. I'd find that awful as well.

 

[PabloLerntKochen]

I don't want to defend chef mountain, but there're a lot of unnecessary problems around vegan people. Vegan options are expensive and you don't get that much recognition as a western chef when you've managed to master the Tofu or other vegan proteins, as when you master the steak. Then there's this weird thing going on and on, that when you're doing Catering for an event, 5 minutes before serving 10 vegans show up, that were never mentioned before... it's not a surprise anymore, it happens 7 out of 10 times and everytime an event is planned we ask what if more vegans or lactose intolerant show up.
The vegans themselves are not the problem, it's how society treats them.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

I don't want to defend chef mountain, but there're a lot of unnecessary problems around vegan people. Vegan options are expensive and you don't get that much recognition as a western chef when you've managed to master the Tofu or other vegan proteins, as when you master the steak. Then there's this weird thing going on and on, that when you're doing Catering for an event, 5 minutes before serving 10 vegans show up, that were never mentioned before... it's not a surprise anymore, it happens 7 out of 10 times and everytime an event is planned we ask what if more vegans or lactose intolerant show up.
The vegans themselves are not the problem, it's how society treats them.

The problem was that the vegan rang up in advance and arranged a simple meal. That message was never relayed to the sous chef on the day concerned. That's bad management. They then charged the vegan $32 for a plate of plain veg, presumably with no apology or similar. The vegan left a bad review of the restaurant as a result and so they ban all vegans.

A much better approach would have been to apologised, offered the veg free and perhaps a gift voucher or free course in their next visit and accepted they made the mistake. That would not have resulted in a bad review, maybe only a mediocre one or no review at all.

Frankly management should have handled the situation better.

Celebrity chef 'bans' vegans from restaurant after negative review

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

5 minutes before serving 10 vegans show up, that were never mentioned before

Even given weeks of notice, I've had many bad experiences sadly. The last one was at Christmas. Their "vegan" option was literally pumpkin seeds mixed with green lentils & a few pieces of chopped pumpkin. No seasoning, so flavour, no herbs or spices, no sauce, no anything else at all and I had been assured that not only did they cater for vegans, that I'd have a choice. I couldn't even have the plain bread they had put out because that had milk powder in it.

All I ate that night was some gluten free, dairy free slices of "foccia" that had been pulled from a freezer, and a few pieces of squash/pumpkin I'd extracted from that "salad". For a very expensive company event, that was downright unsatisfactory.

Given I am expected to attend, this year, I'll actually take my own food so I don't have to sit watching other people eat whilst I go hungry because carrots have to have butter all over them, as do green beans, boiled potatoes and so on. There literally was no vegetables that had no had dairy mixed into them in one way or another. The only salad, had dairy in the dressings. We don't tell people in vegan unnecessarily, they knew they had someone attending who was seriously allergic to dairy and was vegetarian. I told them to just go with vegan because it makes it easier. Kindly they labels all the meat and fish as gluten free or dairy free or both, but bread, salad, and veg didn't qualify for the dairy free. Go figure.

 

[caseydog]

We don't tell people in vegan unnecessarily, they knew they had someone attending who was seriously allergic to dairy and was vegetarian. I told them to just go with vegan because it makes it easier. Kindly they labels all the meat and fish as gluten free or dairy free or both, but bread, salad, and veg didn't qualify for the dairy free. Go figure.

In fairness, if I found out a vegan was coming to my home for dinner, I'd probably panic. I'd spend hours doing research, and then still worry that I broke one of the many rules of vegan cuisine. You have many years of experience preparing vegan meals. A restaurant that does not normally cater to vegans is not likely to know how to properly cook for vegans.

CD

 

[medtran49]

Tofu just needs to be prepared correctly. In countries that it is traditionally used in, it actually isn't a neat replacement, but a supplement to it and often served alongside meat, prepared correctly though.

The recipe we use for Lion's head meatballs uses tofu in place of a panade. It makes a very good meatball.

 

[The OMWC]

I made dinner a few weeks ago for Non-Picky Eater, who is decidedly not vegan. I didn't intend for it to be vegan, it just turned out that way. Pkhali (two kinds, spinach and bean), roasted mushrooms with tarragon, boiled dumplings with Beyond meat stuffing (TVP would have worked fine) spiced with garlic, fenugreek, and a touch of cumin, napped with a roasted tomato and ginger sauce. Easy and came together quickly. Why can I do this and a celebrity chef can't?

 

[Rocklobster]

I made dinner a few weeks ago for Non-Picky Eater, who is decidedly not vegan. I didn't intend for it to be vegan, it just turned out that way. Pkhali (two kinds, spinach and bean), roasted mushrooms with tarragon, boiled dumplings with Beyond meat stuffing (TVP would have worked fine) spiced with garlic, fenugreek, and a touch of cumin, napped with a roasted tomato and ginger sauce. Easy and came together quickly. Why can I do this and a celebrity chef can't?

As an owner of an eating establishment, I would say that unfortunately, Vegans aren't a large enough demographic for a typical eatery to invest the time and expense to service..so, it could be a business decision...and, within that group, there are many sub groups of people with a large variety of dietary concerns that make it complicated to address the many sensitivities to ingredients. Once again, too much investment for inadequate return..
Personally, I have no problem with vegetarians or vegans and do have many meatless meals throughout the week. But, as far as my shop goes, it would be, and has been, a fruitless endeavour to cater to different types of customers, plus I stick to what I know best...

 

[caseydog]

As an owner of an eating establishment, I would say that unfortunately, Vegans aren't a large enough demographic to invest the time and expense to service..so, it could be a business decision...and, within that group, there are many sub groups of people with a large variety of dietary concerns that make it complicated to address the many sensitivities to ingredients. Once again, too much investment for inadequate return..
Personally, I have no problem with vegetarians or vegans and do have many meatless meals throughout the week. But, as far as my shop goes, it would be, and has been, a fruitless endeavour to cater to different types of customers, plus I stick to what I know best...

The type of restaurant matters, too. Expecting a prime steakhouse to offer a wide selection of vegan dishes is not realistic. If your restaurant specializes is high quality beef steaks, vegetables are side dishes, and you probably don't have a single block of tofu in your kitchen -- and wouldn't likely have a kitchen staff trained to properly cook tofu.

Chef Mountain just handled the communications badly. Or, maybe it is a publicity stunt. It may improve his sales to non-vegans.

CD

 

[Rocklobster]

And, if you were going to try and attract this type of clientele you would have to feature a substantial variety of menu items to keep things interesting, appetizing and reason for them to come back..that, in itself, requires a large inventory of fresh produce and prep time and expense so this is why it is usually a business unto it's own..

 

[The OMWC]

And, if you were going to try and attract this type of clientele you would have to feature a substantial variety of menu items to keep things interesting, appetizing and reason for them to come back..that, in itself, requires a large inventory of fresh produce and prep time and expense so this is why it is usually a business unto it's own..

I agree, it's unreasonable for a vegan or vegetarian to expect anything from a steakhouse, and when I've been dragged to them, I came in with no expectations of getting an actual meal. Outside of that (or similar) niches, any restaurant with pretensions to quality should be able to accommodate people with common dietary restrictions. From the article, it sounded like their issue was their own failure to communicate internally.

 

[Rocklobster]

I agree, it's unreasonable for a vegan or vegetarian to expect anything from a steakhouse, and when I've been dragged to them, I came in with no expectations of getting an actual meal. Outside of that (or similar) niches, any restaurant with pretensions to quality should be able to accommodate people with common dietary restrictions. From the article, it sounded like their issue was their own failure to communicate internally.

Well, at the end of the day, it is a private business and they can do what they want..Maybe not the best way to promote yourself, and harsh to say the least...But, if you have 100 customers a day, and 98 leave happy, you honestly don't, or can't, worry about the other 2. Nothing personal..it's just business


Vegans and vegetarians aside, I have people walking out because I have onions in my soup..gluten, soy, carrots, garlic, sodium, etc. Dietary concerns are so vast...I can't possibly please everybody..
So, all said and done..you just do what you can to appease the majority..

 

[The OMWC]

Well, at the end of the day, it is a private business and they can do what they want..

Absolutely true. But at the same time, I think it reflects poorly on the quality of a chef if he or she can't deal with something simple and (increasingly) common. Their choice to look bad.