Restaurants and vegan options

[caseydog]

I still dream about vegan “fish” tacos I had at one place (they were made from hearts of palm).

Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds to me like you had hearts of palm tacos.

Nothing wrong with that, I might even like them. But, why didn't the restaurant just call them "hearts of palm tacos?"

CD

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

I haven't been to Oz or NZ yet, so can't comment, but among others, I've dined at the two most highly reputed vegetarian restaurants in the US (Greens and Moosewood). Both were OK, but nothing special. Mostly, what I find here is bland and clumsy, and even moreso in Europe.

I was referring to the UK and Europe where I'm from.

 

[caseydog]

As an owner of an eating establishment, I would say that unfortunately, Vegans aren't a large enough demographic for a typical eatery to invest the time and expense to service..so, it could be a business decision...

According to a 2023 survey, about 5% of Americans consider themselves vegetarian, and 3% consider themselves vegans.

In India, about 40% are vegetarian, and 24% vegan.

If I were to open a restaurant in India, it would have a mostly vegetarian/vegan menu. In the us, I'm thinking that strategy would be a lot more risky.

CD

 

[Rocklobster]

In certain localities, for sure..Larger urban centres will obviously have more..small towns and rural areas, not so much.. I don't know of one in the whole Ottawa Valley, which is where I reside..that constitutes, about 5 towns, 10 villages and all tourist areas in between.

 

[Herbaceous]

Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds to me like you had hearts of palm tacos.

Nothing wrong with that, I might even like them. But, why didn't the restaurant just call them "hearts of palm tacos?"

CD

Eh, I know some people prefer to vegetarian/vegan dishes not pretend to be meat or not be named after meat, but I’m really not fussed either way. I was at a vegan restaurant, I knew I wasn’t going to be getting actual fish.

My husband once swung by the store to grab dinner for himself (I was going out), and he got some chicken nuggets. I looked at the packaging and pointed out they were the vegan kind…he got so annoyed!

I ended up eating the nuggets a few days later, they were tasty. Tasted quite similar to chicken.

 

[karadekoolaid]

Perhaps that's just your corner of the world.

In the UK in the 70s, there was "Cranks". Great food. Don't know whether it still exists.
In Caracas, Venezuela, in the 80s, there was a notable vegetarian restaurant we used to visit - omnivores and all - which was excellent, and that surprised me in a country where almost everyone eats meat.

 

[karadekoolaid]

Veganism has quadrupled in the UK in just five years, it's not a trend that shows any signs of slowing and young people are the largest demographic

I agree it's a growing trend and I, personally, am happy that folks are embracing a healthier lifestyle.
However, Vegans in the UK (last count, 600,000) represent 0.9% of the population. Strict Hindus represent about 1.5%. 6.7% of the population is Muslim. Jews, 0.46%. Coeliacs represent about 1%. Should restaurants provide options for all these groups?
I'm not being bloody-minded or trying to pick a fight; on the contrary, I'd love to see everyone accommodated when they go out to eat. However, as I stated above, restaurants are businesses and they need to ensure their offerings cover their financial needs AND make a profit.
My experience over the past 18 months in the UK was encouraging, I think, because most places had a couple of vegetarian options and even Vegan options. My nephew is not only "vegetarian", he's also a Chef's nightmare : eats cheese, but not blue, eats vegetables, but not cabbage, mushrooms or sweet corn, etc, etc., and we went to several places where he was happy with the food.

Running a restaurant that only caters for older people's way of eating is not sustainable in the long term

Absolutely, but half the population is over 40 and a good percentage of that, over 55. They want their fish & chips, Sunday Roast, pies and Ham, eggs, spam, curry & chips. And they want British food. That's going to change, obviously, but at the moment, restaurateurs will continue to offer what SELLS.

 

[SandwichShortOfAPicnic]

.

I agree it's a growing trend and I, personally, am happy that folks are embracing a healthier lifestyle.
However, Vegans in the UK (last count, 600,000) represent 0.9% of the population. Strict Hindus represent about 1.5%. 6.7% of the population is Muslim. Jews, 0.46%. Coeliacs represent about 1%. Should restaurants provide options for all these groups?
I'm not being bloody-minded or trying to pick a fight; on the contrary, I'd love to see everyone accommodated when they go out to eat. However, as I stated above, restaurants are businesses and they need to ensure their offerings cover their financial needs AND make a profit.
My experience over the past 18 months in the UK was encouraging, I think, because most places had a couple of vegetarian options and even Vegan options. My nephew is not only "vegetarian", he's also a Chef's nightmare : eats cheese, but not blue, eats vegetables, but not cabbage, mushrooms or sweet corn, etc, etc., and we went to several places where he was happy with the food.

Absolutely, but half the population is over 40 and a good percentage of that, over 55. They want their fish & chips, Sunday Roast, pies and Ham, eggs, spam, curry & chips. And they want British food. That's going to change, obviously, but at the moment, restaurateurs will continue to offer what SELLS.

Like a reference for your stats as estimates for the UK as far as I’m aware for veganism is 2-3%

My point was and still is that everyone knows someone with a dietary requirement and that means the establishments who don’t cater for those people miss out on more that just the money from the tiny % who can’t or won’t eat a normal diet as people book to go to places who can cater for everyone.

It’s not a case of feeling entitled (although I’ve certainly seen that amongst my parents generation and wholly embarrassing it is too) it’s simply part of life to enjoy a meal out together.

The status quo will maintain those more restricted restaurants for as long as those generations are in charge of doing the choosing and booking of the restaurant.

I’m often on the receiving end of the tish n pish generation about allergies and veganisn etc because I can’t hide being a coeliac, no matter how much I’d like to and let’s just say being viewed as a fuss maker for not eating gluten isn’t fun. They think you should eat what you’re given and be grateful. It's a modern made up problem and it never happened when they were growing up..

When they’ve decided my case is worthy (and oh how they like to judge so I have to spend time explaining I’m not one of those fussy people) I then get to hear what they think of people with dietary requirements, you know the fake ones like vegans.

Tbh the lack of tolerance isn’t good, it’s as if it represents a new whole woke world they don’t like or want when in reality those people just want to go out and enjoy a nice meal with family and friends like everyone else does.

The younger generation that has grown up surrounded by veganism and friends with adrenaline pens accept it readily and very soon they’ll be the ones choosing the restaurants. It won’t simply be a case of the older generation shuffling off before they decide where everyone’s eating.

When they do the booking consideration of Grandads love of fish n chips and their vegan bezzies dietary requirements are taken on board. They have a tolerance of and a kindness about eating out that some gens don’t have.

So no I don’t expect restaurants to cater for everyone (never said I did) but as you can see from the bottom end eateries choices who are doing exceptionally well people want it now.
I do expect both now and longer term for some restaurants and cafes to increasingly lose out.

 

[SandwichShortOfAPicnic]

ps I'm going to a cafe as soon as I arrive back in Blighty to sample their breakfast menu (mmm kippers).
Their menu is very clear - the menu is marked with dishes that can be gluten free but there is absolutely no changing breakfast items, no swaps or substitutes. It is what it is. I'm totally on board with that, it's a tiny very busy cafe and they're upfront about what they will and won't do.

Like others have said the restaurant who said they could cater for someone who then didn't is a whole nother kettle of fish.. mmm kippers.

 

[The OMWC]

I agree it's a growing trend and I, personally, am happy that folks are embracing a healthier lifestyle.

I prove again and again that vegetarianism does not equate to a healthier lifestyle.

 

[The OMWC]

Should restaurants provide options for all these groups?

If they say, "We can cover you," to someone who calls ahead, absolutely yes. If they have any pretensions to quality and are not a specialist (e.g. steakhouse, seafood restaurant), then either a vegetarian option OR being able to whip together something good with ingredients on hand, yes. I know better than to go to a Thai restaurant because putting together a vegetarian dish will be impractical since they tend to use sauces made in advance, so they get an OMWC pass.

Strict kosher? No, that's unreasonable, that would involve a complete re-equipping and deep clean as well as a rabbinic certification.

 

[Morning Glory]

The younger generation that has grown up surrounded by veganism and friends with adrenaline pens accept it readily and very soon they’ll be the ones choosing the restaurants. It won’t simply be a case of the older generation shuffling off before they decide where everyone’s eating.

When they do the booking consideration of Grandads love of fish n chips and their vegan bezzies dietary requirements are taken on board. They have a tolerance of and a kindness about eating out that some gens don’t have.

Oh yes. I agree - this is most definitely true in the UK, Australia and NZ, I think. Its also the case in Tel Aviv for example. My daughter who is vegetarian went there and said she had the best food she has ever eaten (besides mine of course). But the US is a huge country which is really a lot of different 'countries' in terms of the cuisine and traditions. In LA there would be no issues with vegan/vegetarian options but in some other areas...

Not that I'm an expert on US cuisine - but I've learnt a lot about it on this forum.

Vegetarians are 10% (approx) of the population in the UK and there are many others who are 'flexitarian' and will choose a vegan or vegetarian option. It really is quite the norm here.

 

[JAS_OH1]

Oh yes. I agree - this is most definitely true in the UK, Australia and NZ, I think. Its also the case in Tel Aviv for example. My daughter who is vegetarian went there and said she had the best food she has ever eaten (besides mine of course). But the US is a huge country which is really a lot of different 'countries' in terms of the cuisine and traditions. In LA there would be no issues with vegan/vegetarian options but in some other areas...

Not that I'm an expert on US cuisine - but I've learnt a lot about it on this forum.

Vegetarians are 10% (approx) of the population in the UK and there are many others who are 'flexitarian' and will choose a vegan or vegetarian option. It really is quite the norm here.

In most cities there are plenty of vegetarian and vegan options, even in the Midwest. Akron is a small city of only about 250k, but it's a college town so it has a broader range than some others that size. Go to smaller rural towns and there's not many options.

 

[caseydog]

Like a reference for your stats as estimates for the UK as far as I’m aware for veganism is 2-3%

My point was and still is that everyone knows someone with a dietary requirement and that means the establishments who don’t cater for those people miss out on more that just the money from the tiny % who can’t or won’t eat a normal diet as people book to go to places who can cater for everyone.

It’s not a case of feeling entitled (although I’ve certainly seen that amongst my parents generation and wholly embarrassing it is too) it’s simply part of life to enjoy a meal out together.

The status quo will maintain those more restricted restaurants for as long as those generations are in charge of doing the choosing and booking of the restaurant.

I’m often on the receiving end of the tish n pish generation about allergies and veganisn etc because I can’t hide being a coeliac, no matter how much I’d like to and let’s just say being viewed as a fuss maker for not eating gluten isn’t fun. They think you should eat what you’re given and be grateful. It's a modern made up problem and it never happened when they were growing up..

When they’ve decided my case is worthy (and oh how they like to judge so I have to spend time explaining I’m not one of those fussy people) I then get to hear what they think of people with dietary requirements, you know the fake ones like vegans.

Tbh the lack of tolerance isn’t good, it’s as if it represents a new whole woke world they don’t like or want when in reality those people just want to go out and enjoy a nice meal with family and friends like everyone else does.

The younger generation that has grown up surrounded by veganism and friends with adrenaline pens accept it readily and very soon they’ll be the ones choosing the restaurants. It won’t simply be a case of the older generation shuffling off before they decide where everyone’s eating.

When they do the booking consideration of Grandads love of fish n chips and their vegan bezzies dietary requirements are taken on board. They have a tolerance of and a kindness about eating out that some gens don’t have.

So no I don’t expect restaurants to cater for everyone (never said I did) but as you can see from the bottom end eateries choices who are doing exceptionally well people want it now.
I do expect both now and longer term for some restaurants and cafes to increasingly lose out.

I would like to point out that, IMO, food restrictions are not all the same. It is a lot easier to offer gluten free options than full vegan menu items. A lot of pizza places here offer gluten free pizza options. That's easy, you just use a different dough. In fact, gluten free is marketed heavily here. BTW, I have a cousin who has celiac disease (it is spelled different here), and it used to be hard for him to eat at a restaurant, but now it's not that hard. But, like I said, gluten free is not difficult to do.

Due to liver/kidney issues, I am on a sodium restricted diet. My body doesn't eliminate sodium as it should, so if I have to much, it accumulates and I bloat up like the Michelin Man. I know there is NO way I'm going to get ANY restaurant to accommodate my sodium restriction, so as a consequence, I don't eat restaurant food very often -- maybe two or three times a month. That's just part of life, for me.

CD

 

[Mountain Cat]

Eh, I know some people prefer to vegetarian/vegan dishes not pretend to be meat or not be named after meat, but I’m really not fussed either way. I was at a vegan restaurant, I knew I wasn’t going to be getting actual fish.

My husband once swung by the store to grab dinner for himself (I was going out), and he got some chicken nuggets. I looked at the packaging and pointed out they were the vegan kind…he got so annoyed!

I ended up eating the nuggets a few days later, they were tasty. Tasted quite similar to chicken.

If you have not eaten chicken for a while, can you really know that the chicken nuggets tasted similar enough to chicken?

I will often cook vegetarian or vegan food here - but I don't need it to try to taste like meat. Seitan does taste rubbery. So does most fake cheese. But there are plenty of things to make that don't have that problem, and are vegan.

One thing I really miss - Panera's vegan black bean soup. That item, now discontinued, was awesome.