rascal
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My wife doesn't use sprays etc on her crops, closest she goes is using sheep manure, and a bit of blood and bone. That's all.
Is her stuff organic? Vegan?
Russ
Is her stuff organic? Vegan?
Russ
rascal
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Organic, not legally no.
Plus unless the sheep are on certified organic land and they themselves are fed and kept organically, their waste will also contaminate any potentially organic produce. Farm animals of all sorts including sheep are routinely injected not just with antibiotics but also systemic insecticides & vitamins. Whilst the industry has phased out sheep dips, it has phased in the use of oral insecticides, skin absorbed (systemic) insecticides and injections of the same. These insecticides are there to protect against all sorts including a horrible infliction called fly strike where flies lay eggs on the sheep's wool as close to the skin as possible. The eggs hatch and the maggots burrow into the sheeps skin and eat the sheep alive. the condition is invariably fatal usually from sepsis. Wet wool & /or dirty back ends are the main culprit. (Fly strike is not limited to cattle & sheep either. Chooks, dogs etc can also be attacked.) Plus there are ticks to think about and so on. Fish are not exempt from similar "treatments" used in fish farming.
Any product from any animal/fish where the fish/animal itself is not certified organic will also not be organic, including blood & bone. And the land/water they are grown in/an also needs to be organic and so on... And then there is water run off from other land users to consider.
It's why getting organic certification is such a minefield.
So without knowing if the products used are all certified organic, it is impossible to comment.
For Instance, my chooks are free range & only fed organic food but their eggs are not legally organic because the farmer here uses insecticides & herbicides on his land surrounding us and my chooks cross his land to get to their chook house. They also roam and dig on the edges of his fields. We've asked him to let us know when he is spraying so that we can cover over our veg plot because one year the herbicide he sprayed (so he could plant a winter crop for the sheep) drifted and killed everything in our veg plot & a good portion of the lawn as well. I don't spray my veg plot and the fertiliser used is chook shit. But I also don't count my crops as organic. My seed sometimes is, sometimes isn't. My fertiliser is usually but at intervals during the year, when I de-worm my chooks, what they are given isn't organic...
As for vegan? That's a difficult one. personally I'd rather not use blood & bone on my produce or in my garden and I'd rather not eat produce that has been grown using it but how do you know? Answer: you don't. And from a strict vegan PETA standpoint it probably isn't either. Pius there are plenty of "suitable for a vegan gardener" products around in the way of garden fertiliser or pest removers.
Mind you PETA has called for vegans to stop asking for dedicated pots & pans in resturants that haven't had meat or fish /dairy and so on on them.
I just wonder how many actually appreciate what "fine bone china" actually means!
Well, once again, the makers of the food rules are making things difficult.
I figure, like most things in life, there are gradations of "organic." Using sheep manure from sheep that ate feed that isn't organic is more organic than using chemical fertilizers.
I try to keep my garden "mostly organic." I avoid chemicals as much as possible, but if I get an insect invasion that could wipe out my garden, I'll use the safest chemicals I can get, in as small amounts as possible, to save my garden.
BTW, if someone ever asked me not to use any pots or pans that were used to cook meat to prepare their vegan meal, I'd show them to the door.
CD
rascal
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rascal
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And I'd retreat quickly, you have guns.Well, once again, the makers of the food rules are making things difficult.
I figure, like most things in life, there are gradations of "organic." Using sheep manure from sheep that ate feed that isn't organic is more organic than using chemical fertilizers.
I try to keep my garden "mostly organic." I avoid chemicals as much as possible, but if I get an insect invasion that could wipe out my garden, I'll use the safest chemicals I can get, in as small amounts as possible, to save my garden.
BTW, if someone ever asked me not to use any pots or pans that were used to cook meat to prepare their vegan meal, I'd show them to the door.
CD
Russ
And I'd retreat quickly, you have guns.
Russ
Of course, you do realize I wouldn't think of using them for such things.
I have psycho-poodle for that.CD
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Nah, it's either organic or it isn't. No inbetween.Well, once again, the makers of the food rules are making things difficult.
I figure, like most things in life, there are gradations of "organic." Using sheep manure from sheep that ate feed that isn't organic is more organic than using chemical fertilizers.
I try to keep my garden "mostly organic." I avoid chemicals as much as possible, but if I get an insect invasion that could wipe out my garden, I'll use the safest chemicals I can get, in as small amounts as possible, to save my garden.
BTW, if someone ever asked me not to use any pots or pans that were used to cook meat to prepare their vegan meal, I'd show them to the door.
CD
As for pots & pans I agree. But our own are but that's my choice. Or at least vegetarian. A couple of our really good ones date back to before we married 25 years ago and they were only vegetarian!
I do insist no dairy inn the house when we have visitors. If they come by car, they can keep milk in it, but that's only because we live so remotely from any immediate medical attention. When you're anaphylactic to something there are certain precautions needed. But we do have tinned tuna in the house. The chooks get a treat once a week. It allows us to hand feed them, check them over at close quarters and ensure all get a fair share of protein. It must be in spring water though because salt is fatal to chooks. One or two of our girls have breed specific issues that need to be kept an eye on. 3 need regular "haircuts" so they can actually see to eat and it's meant that they are very shy and reclusive as a result. When that behaviour resurfaces, it's time for feathers to be trimmed around the eyes! 1 girl I can do by myself, but the other 2 it's a 2 person job.
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Apologies, I meant from a legal point of view. I was still on the "old" conversation.
But a serious quantity of non-organic, non-desirable -cides (insecticide, herbicide, pesticides etc) does remain in the body over time, it's the entire concept behind the drugs used to supposedly keep these animals healthy. Time release or stuff that just stays in the body period. No different from giving a pet a dewormer tablet every 1 or 3 months. It isn't just covered for a few days but that entire period, so is in the body. It's also in the poo pourri, blood, bones and so on.
I only treat my chooks with (de-)worming tablets when i see symptoms that they may need it (such as watery or excessively watery chook shit). Lice are a bigger issue where we are.
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rascal
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I know the boundaries are so sketchy, I'm sticking to organic knowing vast majority of sheep here are grass fed , although I know they are wormed.
Kinda like people nowadays, some identify as male, female, trans or even a toaster.
Russ
I know the boundaries are so sketchy, I'm sticking to organic knowing vast majority of sheep here are grass fed , although I know they are wormed.
Kinda like people nowadays, some identify as male, female, trans or even a toaster.
Russ
Being "grass fed" is a minefield, too. Cattle can be fed on pasture grass for 90-percent of their life, and fattened up with corn for two months before going to market. I'm sure it is the same with sheep. Being grass fed, even from start to finish, is no guarantee that an animal is organic, either. Even ranchers who don't give antibiotics to ALL of their animals, will give them "as needed" if some animals get sick. Even grazing in pristine pastures, some animals will get sick.
CD
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Grass doesn't grow below a certain temperature, so farmers have to sow other crops such as winter rye to grow through winter for cattle and sheep (and goats etc) to eat during colder times. This applies even here in Australia but is especially true in the northern lands . it's why hay and straw, haylidge, and so on is needed. Beet is another crop grown simply to be left in the ground for livestock to be fed during winter months.
And quite frankly, if the grass is fed and sprayed (insecticides to reduce damage to roots from pests, to increase yields) those insecticides not only remain in the grass but remain in the soil from year to year. It is why getting the organic label is so hard. These chemicals are bad for biodiversity. They are bad for the environment and so on. The only thing they are good for is a monoculture.
So if your livestock is eating grass that has been sprayed, it goes without saying that the livestock can not be considered organic.
Being organic isn't simply about antibiotics. Insecticides, pesticides and even the fertilisers used are not organic. And if they are not organic, your land isn't and what is eating or growing on your land also isn't.
And quite frankly, if the grass is fed and sprayed (insecticides to reduce damage to roots from pests, to increase yields) those insecticides not only remain in the grass but remain in the soil from year to year. It is why getting the organic label is so hard. These chemicals are bad for biodiversity. They are bad for the environment and so on. The only thing they are good for is a monoculture.
So if your livestock is eating grass that has been sprayed, it goes without saying that the livestock can not be considered organic.
Being organic isn't simply about antibiotics. Insecticides, pesticides and even the fertilisers used are not organic. And if they are not organic, your land isn't and what is eating or growing on your land also isn't.
The cattle at the ranch a couple blocks from my house are grazed on native prairie grass, which needs no chemical pesticides or fertilizers. During times when the grass is not enough, it is augmented with hay/straw, as you mentioned. That is grown locally, too. I've never seen it sprayed with anything, either.
Native plants, trees and grasses, that have been around an area for thousands of years, generally don't need much more than what nature provides.
CD