Italian American Food

TastyReuben said:
I think anyone could make that claim, though - not that it makes it less true, of course. Dishes and whole cuisines get exported or migrate, and then they're pretty much instantly modified to match the tastes of the locals and the ingredients at hand, but it still gets referred to as an "Italian" dish or whatever the origin is. I imagine when someone comes here for the first time from China, they don't recognize what we call Chinese food. :wink:

It's not just Americans doing the bastardizing, it goes on everywhere, all directions.
Click to expand...

I also think that nowadays some information about what is Italian and what is Italian-American food is more clear than years ago (with exceptions, of course) as it’s also a matter of proud and business, so the Big Italy claims 😄
 
caseydog said:
That's a bit harsh. Keep in mind, Italian-American food was created by Italian immigrants, like my great grandparents. When they got here, the food that was readily available here (and cheap) was different than what was available (and cheap) in Italy. So, recipes changed.

I wouldn't say that Creole food is a bastardization of French cuisine -- it is the result of people using what was local (and cheap).

CD
Click to expand...
Creole is a compilation of African, French and Spanish influences. Definitely a bastardization. Cajun food is a bastardization of rustic, French, country cooking using anything and everything available.
 
ElizabethB said:
Creole is a compilation of African, French and Spanish influences. Definitely a bastardization. Cajun food is a bastardization of rustic, French, country cooking using anything and everything available.
Click to expand...

"Bastardization" has a very negative connotation, to me. Maybe that's where we disagree. Creole and Cajun food tastes good, and so does Italian-American food, IMO.

CD
 
caseydog said:
"Bastardization" has a very negative connotation, to me. Maybe that's where we disagree. Creole and Cajun food tastes good, and so does Italian-American food, IMO.

CD
Click to expand...

Maybe fusion is a better term. But at the end of the day all cuisines are fusion of some sort if you go far enough back in history.
 
Morning Glory said:
Maybe fusion is a better term. But at the end of the day all cuisines are fusion of some sort if you go far enough back in history.
Click to expand...

I tend to think of Italian-American food as "evolution." If you move to a new land, and can't get the ingredients you could get in your homeland, but other tasty ingredients are available and cheap, you adapt your recipes. Keep in mind, Italian immigrants like my great grandparents were poor. They came here with little or no money, looking for jobs. My great grandfather came first, settle near Pittsburgh, got a job, and save up money to bring his wife and first two kids to the US. They had six more kids here. They were living on his income alone, which wasn't much.

That is a very common story of Italian Immigrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s. That was the main reason their recipes changed.

CD
 
caseydog said:
I tend to think of Italian-American food as "evolution." If you move to a new land, and can't get the ingredients you could get in your homeland, but other tasty ingredients are available and cheap, you adapt your recipes. Keep in mind, Italian immigrants like my great grandparents were poor. They came here with little or no money, looking for jobs. My great grandfather came first, settle near Pittsburgh, got a job, and save up money to bring his wife and first two kids to the US. They had six more kids here. They were living on his income alone, which wasn't much.

That is a very common story of Italian Immigrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s. That was the main reason their recipes changed.

CD
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. I was also referring to the evolution of cuisines due to importation of ingredients and/or 'seeds to grow' from afar. An obvious example is the introduction of the potato from South America into the British Isles by Francis Drake in the 1500s.

In ancient Rome there were no aubergines, peppers, courgettes, or tomatoes, which are now staples of modern Italian cooking. These were introduced as the Empire expanded.
 
Morning Glory said:
Yes indeed. I was also referring to the evolution of cuisines due to importation of ingredients and/or 'seeds to grow' from afar. An obvious example is the introduction of the potato from South America into the British Isles by Francis Drake in the 1500s.

In ancient Rome there were no aubergines, peppers, courgettes, or tomatoes, which are now staples of modern Italian cooking. These were introduced as the Empire expanded.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons Italian American dishes are heavy of tomato sauce and meats, is because those things were rather abundant in America when they arrived here. Abundant equals cheap. At the time my family came to the US, meat was not abundant in Italy. I don't know about tomatoes in the early 1900s in Italy, but they were abundant here.

CD
 
caseydog said:
One of the reasons Italian American dishes are heavy of tomato sauce and meats, is because those things were rather abundant in America when they arrived here. Abundant equals cheap. At the time my family came to the US, meat was not abundant in Italy. I don't know about tomatoes in the early 1900s in Italy, but they were abundant here.

CD
Click to expand...

Wasn't meat abundant in Italy? mmm, that sounds new to me. Perhaps you mean that not everyone could afford it, except for those areas in Northern Italy where meat was practically everywhere thanks to livestock farming.
For tomatoes, on the other hand, they were more than abundant and affordable to everyone, especially in the South of Italy.
 
Last edited:
MypinchofItaly said:
Wasn't meat abundant in Italy? mmm, that sounds new to me. Perhaps you mean that not everyone could afford it, except for those areas in Northern Italy where meat was practically everywhere thanks to livestock farming.
For tomatoes, on the other hand, they were more than abundant, especially in the South of Italy.
Click to expand...

I only know what I've read by food historians like Simone Cinotto and Vincent Cannato. They claim that the abundance of beef, pork and chicken led to Italian-American food becoming more meat centric -- dishes like spaghetti and meatballs, with BIG meatballs.

I am not an expert, by any means, but as a young adult, I became very interested in my family's history, and couldn't find much. So I looked at the history of Italian immigrants like my great grandparents. Having travelled around Italy, I knew the food was different -- although with some similar genes. Now, I cook both Italian and Italian-American style dishes.

CD
 
Morning Glory said:
Maybe fusion is a better term. But at the end of the day all cuisines are fusion of some sort if you go far enough back in history.
Click to expand...
Thank you MG. Fusion would have been a better term. Sorry all. My word usage was not intended to offend. My thought was a compilation of ingredients and techniques that resulted in a new, different genre of food.
 
I must make amends, absolutely. In Italy, and precisely in Naples, there is a street food called 'Cuzzetiello', which consists of a piece of bread stuffed with meatballs with sauce and/or other ingredients.

It was my dad who reminded me that it exists. And it seems that I also ate it when I was a teenager during a weekend spent in Naples with my parents.

50771
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom