The General Chat Thread (2016-2022)

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TastyReuben said:
That's probably a highly complex and maybe not even fully understood phenomenon.

Maybe it partly has to do with the way boys and girls are raised - girls were/are expected to be a little more...demur?...about expressing their feelings that way, and boys were/are encouraged to, so maybe it's been ingrained in some men that commenting that way is a-ok, and ingrained in some women that they should accept that as a compliment and move on.

Also, I hope I didn't sound like I was arguing with you - I'm not. I'm just saying it doesn't bug me if women (anyone, really) want to jump in there and say, "Yeah, he's an accountant, but...damn, he's fine!" :laugh:
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I think you may be onto something there. I know that both my parents are sexist (favor males) and I've met many others, even women, who are as well. Males are allowed to express themselves in just about any way without fear of reprisal. Whereas, the same behavior from women is often viewed negatively.

BTW, I didn't think you were arguing with me; however, it would be okay if you were. That's how we learn other people's point of view and maybe grow from open conversation. I appreciate your insight so we're all good. ;-)
 
caseydog said:
I understand your point completely. For a long time, a woman's value was based on her looks, or "sex appeal."

Sarah Palin actually benefited from that, because she was clearly someone who never took things like education and knowledge seriously, but a lot of guys liked her because they saw her as "hot." I would regularly tell my fellow males that if McCain was elected, she would become President if he died. Being "hot" does not qualify a person to be President.

BTW, I think McCain may have won if not for his campaign strategist's choice of Sarah Palin as his VP running mate.

CD
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It boggles my mind sometimes the way people don't connect the dots between admiring someone for some superficial reason to creating a monster of sorts. I also agree that Palin ultimately hurt McCain's ticket and as much as it would have been nice to see a female VP, I was more interested in a QUALIFIED candidate. Thank you for your comments on this.
 
Duck59 said:
I think it still happens just as much. Take, for a small example, the British historians Mary Beard and Lucy Worsley. Both are regulars on television in the UK, are very good at what they do and are clearly highly intelligent and knowledgeable people. Yet it's still common to see and hear remarks about how they look. Mary Beard, who is in her mid-sixties, is derided for her long hair and slightly buck teeth, among other things. Lucy Worsley is mocked for her trademark hairclip and ever so slight speech impediment. These things should be utterly irrelevant.
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Agreed. I think it still happens as much and is probably worse because people are no longer confined to just their neck of the woods.

Many years ago (less than 30 ;-) I volunteered as a Business Consultant for a non-profit agency (a ministry). My task was to recruit and train a group of volunteers for an upcoming project. I recruited a guy from another country (which I'm omitting because I don't want to detract from the important parts).

One day, he sent me an email using the greeting "Sir". I responded to his question and wrote a P.S. telling him that I was female so he should address me as "Ms." or "Madam" (I don't particularly care for either title, personally). Two seconds later he was sending me pictures of his privates. I was floored! Two seconds later I called the wife of the couple that ran the ministry to let her know that I would be sending her the communication from this guy. Two seconds later, her husband got involved and the guy was immediately released. I could have "fired" him but I wanted to let them know what was happening. It actually made me feel validated as I had faced that kind of issue in the past and was basically blamed for it or told to "just accept it". Here were two people willing to stand behind me and that meant a lot after coming from a family that not only hurt me but turned a blind eye (and sometimes encouraged) when others hurt me.

That and a similar incident is why I use my initials for online communications. In fact, CB is one of two sites in which I've ever revealed my gender. It's just easier for people to assume one is male. Like it or not, men get more respect. (And, no, I'm not saying women don't. It's just a harder road for women).
 
mjd said:
It boggles my mind sometimes the way people don't connect the dots between admiring someone for some superficial reason to creating a monster of sorts. I also agree that Palin ultimately hurt McCain's ticket and as much as it would have been nice to see a female VP, I was more interested in a QUALIFIED candidate. Thank you for your comments on this.
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I think my initial comment was misplaced. I apologise for any offense caused, but my definition of "hot" included intelligence, savvy, kick ass, the sort of person you could do with at the Whitehouse. No disrespect to Joe, but I hope Kamala gets there.
 
LissaC said:
I think it happens just as much, if not even more. My generation is largely to blame for this. Opening Instagram you'll see a lot of 20's-30's wearing skimpy clothes, or taking pictures in sexually suggestive poses or in angles that call attention to certain body parts. There's a flood of women's magazines showing women with little to no clothing on the covers. Objectifying women has become the norm. Men do it and even women do it. I don't think we can detach women from how they look. Of course we have the freedom to look however we want but I think of it as choosing where we want to direct people's attention. I'm a woman, and whenever I see a woman with a cleavage I will be looking at the cleavage, regardless of what she's doing. It's just distracting. With this it's become the norm to evaluate women on how they look or they present themselves. With Kamala, there's also been some buzz around the fact that she married late and doesn't have biological children. Once again this is not the kind of concern you have about a male president. We should be changing our mindset, but I feel like that change is nowhere near. As long as there's heaps of young women willing to go bare naked on social media just for the attention, you'll have women being objectified.

By the way, women do comment on men's looks, and we can be just as inappropriate as some men, but I don't think we do it as often, but I may be wrong :laugh:
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I am a bit older than you and I don't get the impression it's your generation. It's been happening for as long as I can remember and I recall stories from people my parents' and grandparents' age telling me about different experiences they've had with that kind of thing. I agree that it will probably never end. It's sad.

Here's something that happened to me when my daughter was a toddler. We went to a County Fair and there was a table set up with various pieces of costume jewelry. She immediately stopped us and started putting necklaces and bracelets on my daughter. I went to reach for my wallet and she stopped me...

Woman: Oh, no. You don't have to pay for any of it.
Me: Why is that?
Woman: She is absolutely beautiful. She can just have the items.
Me: Thank you, but, either we can pay for the items or you can take them back.
Woman: <looking confused>
Me: I'm not trying to raise another Paris Hilton. She doesn't free items for being beautiful.

My kids get stopped just about everywhere we go and now they are teenagers and they still don't get free passes just because some people find them very attractive. I'd rather have smart, kind and well-educated children than vapid pretty people. There's enough of those people. I'm not unleashing two more into the world. ;-0
 
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epicuric said:
I think my initial comment was misplaced. I apologise for any offense caused, but my definition of "hot" included intelligence, savvy, kick ass, the sort of person you could do with at the Whitehouse. No disrespect to Joe, but I hope Kamala gets there.
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I wasn't offended, Epicuric, but thanks for saying that anyway. All good?
 
mjd said:
I am a bit older than you and I don't get the impression it's your generation. It's been happening for as long as I can remember and I recall stories from people my parents' and grandparents' age telling me about different experiences they've had with that kind of thing. I agree that it will probably never end. It's sad.

Here's something that happened to me when my daughter was a toddler. We went to a County Fair and there was a table set up with various pieces of costume. She immediately stopped us and started putting necklaces and bracelets on my daughter. I went to reach for my wallet and she stopped me...

Woman: Oh, no. You don't have to pay for any of it.
Me: Why is that?
Woman: She is absolutely beautiful. She can just have the items.
Me: Thank you, but, either we can pay for the items or you can take them back.
Woman: <looking confused>
Me: I'm not trying to raise another Paris Hilton. She doesn't free items for being beautiful.

My kids get stopped just about everywhere we go and now they are teenagers and they still don't get free passes just because some people find them very attractive. I'd rather have smart, kinds and well educated children than vapid pretty people. There's enough of those people. I'm not unleashing two more into the world. ;-0
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I think I know where you are coming from mjd. I totally reject the social media based "beautiful people". However, I work in a charity shop, where we do hand out free gifts to children, regardless of gender. It makes everyone smile. We also hand out free treats to dogs, we love them too.
 
epicuric said:
I think I know where you are coming from mjd. I totally reject the social media based "beautiful people". However, I work in a charity shop, where we do hand out free gifts to children, regardless of gender. It makes everyone smile. We also hand out free treats to dogs, we love them too.
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I completely understand that situation. ALL kids and dogs get treats. This woman was trying to single my daughter out to get items which would have normally cost money. That's the part I objected.
 
An old friend of mine, one of those who even if we don't hear from us for months, it doesn't matter because we don't have to keep an agenda, posted a photo on Facebook today of the two of us together with another friend while we were sitting in a pizzeria, I suppose in Milano. It was 1995 or maybe 1996. It moved me to tears. We were so young, in love with life and what we were living in those years, real friends. A story similar to many others probably, but it was a gift as unexpected as it was beautiful. Afterwards he sent me a whatsapp: "I know you were moved. We are still like that!"

I, however, had hair that...for God's Sake the 90s!
 
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