Veggie sausages - illegal?

[Duck59]

The meat industry clearly has the wind up, judging by the latest campaigning to have things like vegetarian sausages and burgers declared illegal terms. The bright sparks behind all this say that it causes "confusion for consumers."

Huh? Veggie sausages and veggie burgers have been around for ages. I can remember eating them in the 1980s. So why now? Well, I think we can guess. The meat industry is getting very jumpy about things.

And another thing: what, precisely, is "confusing" about the words "Veggie" or "Vegetarian" (or indeed "meat-free") in a product? I've never accidentally bought meat, so why or how would a carnivore be fooled into buying a veggie version?

 

[TastyReuben]

There was a huge (well, not huge, really, but I have some vegan folks in my extended family, and it was a huge story for them) blowup around a vegan mayonnaise substitute labeling itself as "mayo." They ended up having to change their labeling a bit at the direction of the FDA.

 

[Morning Glory]

The meat industry clearly has the wind up, judging by the latest campaigning to have things like vegetarian sausages and burgers declared illegal terms. The bright sparks behind all this say that it causes "confusion for consumers."

Huh? Veggie sausages and veggie burgers have been around for ages. I can remember eating them in the 1980s. So why now? Well, I think we can guess. The meat industry is getting very jumpy about things.

And another thing: what, precisely, is "confusing" about the words "Veggie" or "Vegetarian" (or indeed "meat-free") in a product? I've never accidentally bought meat, so why or how would a carnivore be fooled into buying a veggie version?

I note that what used to be labelled plant milks (almond milk etc.) are now labelled plant drinks or 'milk alternatives'. The irony is that almond milk can be found as common ingredient in many old cookery books in both the UK and America - so calling it milk is not a new fangled vegan term.

 

[CookieMonster]

the EU has an entire bureaucracy devoted to deciding which names many not be used on products unless they are made with 20 metres of a town square....
started a long time ago with the champagne thing

 

[caseydog]

There was a huge (well, not huge, really, but I have some vegan folks in my extended family, and it was a huge story for them) blowup around a vegan mayonnaise substitute labeling itself as "mayo." They ended up having to change their labeling a bit at the direction of the FDA.

Yeah, but that is a little different. Veggie meat products say veggie meat clearly on the package. That particular mayo just said Just Mayo on the front of the package. You would have to read the fine print to find out it was egg free. I think it was a good call for the FDA to make them change their labels to more clearly represent the product. Here is the original product label.

CD

 

[TastyReuben]

Yeah, but that is a little different. Veggie meat products say veggie meat clearly on the package. That particular mayo just said Just Mayo on the front of the package. You would have to read the fine print to find out it was egg free. I think it was a good call for the FDA to make them change their labels to more clearly represent the product. Here is the original product label.

View attachment 48600

CD

Oh, I agree. The argument from a lot of folks in the vegan community was that "mayo" wasn't necessarily an abbreviation for "mayonnaise," and therefore was fair game to use.

IOW, a product like Bac'n Bits (which is a brand name for those who aren't familiar with them) didn't call themselves Bacon Bits, because they didn't contain any actual bacon - they're a formulated facsimile of bacon, therefore...Bac'n Bits.

All the vegan folks in my family, and their online vegan friends, argued that the word "mayo" was a modified stand-in for "mayonnaise," just like "Bac'n" is a modified stand-in for "bacon" and not meant to be interpreted as exactly the same thing as "mayonnaise."

My response: "You're really grasping."

 

[caseydog]

I note that what used to be labelled plant milks (almond milk etc.) are now labelled plant drinks or 'milk alternatives'. The irony is that almond milk can be found as common ingredient in many old cookery books in both the UK and America - so calling it milk is not a new fangled vegan term.

Plant milks are clearly not milk, but I think people are able to figure that out when the package says "Almond Milk" on it.

CD

 

[rascal]

Im never gonna be a vegetarian, but I do love veges. I don't get the meat substitute. We recently had a pizza chain serving vegan meat on their pizzas. Hell pizza. They were rebuked and fined.

Russ

 

[epicuric]

This is more of a war of words between small, traditional producers of meat products, and large multi-national peddlers of factory produced cr*p. The French are the main driving force behind it, seeking some protection for their traditional meat producers who are feeling competition from big business trying to pass off vegetarian products, often full of cheap, unhealthy ingredients as viable alternatives to traditional meat products. I don't know how these companies have got away with using the terms 'sausage' and 'burger' to describe vegetarian products. In the UK there are strict rules about the minimum meat content you need to be able to call something a sausage, burger etc.

 

[Morning Glory]

In the UK there are strict rules about the minimum meat content you need to be able to call something a sausage, burger etc.

Am I misunderstanding your comment? There are plenty of vegan/vegetarian products produced the UK labelled burger/sausage. Example - made in Norfolk:

 

[epicuric]

Am I misunderstanding your comment? There are plenty of vegan/vegetarian products produced the UK labelled burger/sausage. Example - made in Norfolk:

View attachment 48625

It's a very confusing situation. DEFRA PMR 2014 regulations state that you can't call a burger 'a burger' unless it contains minimum 68% meat, or a sausage 32% meat. Therefore, you cant call it a sausage if it only has 30% meat, but if it has no meat at all you can call it a vegetarian sausage.

 

[Duck59]

Slightly as an aside, though related to this topic, is the strange phenomenon of crisps that are called "Roast Beef", "Chicken" or whatever, but look at the pack and you'll see "suitable for vegetarians" because they contain no meat whatsoever.

Indeed, I can remember the days when it was fine for me to eat a packet of "Roast Chicken" or "Beef and mustard" crisps, but not a packet of cheese and onion, because the latter contained rennet.

 

[Burt Blank]

the EU has an entire bureaucracy devoted to deciding which names many not be used on products unless they are made with 20 metres of a town square....
started a long time ago with the champagne thing

Monster mate I live in the EU and don't recognize the validity of your comment. Do you read the Daily Mail online ?
Champagne was an old province in France where a sparkling wine was made out of regional grapes Pinot Noir, Meunier These and a few others have AOC approval the sparkling white wine can be called champagne if it is produced in the AOC area.. To be accurate the Champagne thing started in 1843 long before the EU existed.
1843
Champagne producers join forces to defend their common heritage, successfully suing producers of sparkling wines for passing off their products as Champagne.

 

[CookieMonster]

if you don't know about the protected designations issues, I cannot help, sorry.

check this:
The 100-Year-Old Loophole That Makes California Champagne Legal

 

[caseydog]

This is more of a war of words between small, traditional producers of meat products, and large multi-national peddlers of factory produced cr*p. The French are the main driving force behind it, seeking some protection for their traditional meat producers who are feeling competition from big business trying to pass off vegetarian products, often full of cheap, unhealthy ingredients as viable alternatives to traditional meat products. I don't know how these companies have got away with using the terms 'sausage' and 'burger' to describe vegetarian products. In the UK there are strict rules about the minimum meat content you need to be able to call something a sausage, burger etc.

The UK is also trying to keep feedlots out of the UK, and beef from feedlots out. To be clear, there are no "factory" cattle. They are all raised eating grass in a pasture. But many in the US then spend their final weeks in feedlots, eating corn to fatten up before sale. I personaly avoid feedlot cattle, and buy beef from cattle that eat grass from birth to slaughter.

As for fake meat, the labeling here is very clear on these products, so it would be very hard to mistaken for real beef in the supermarket. I'm okay with them calling it a burger as long as they make it clear on the packaging that is is meatless.

One thing people do not realize is that meatless burgers are NOT generally any healthier than a burger with meat. Consumers really need to read the government-required nutritional information labels on the back of the package before buying them.

Texas is beef country. Those meatless meat products are not very popular here. However, a lot of the beef we produce ends life at a feed lot. I've seen some feed lots (and smelled them) up close. Nasty. Thats why they need to load the cattle up with antibiotics. But, the demand for grass fed and finished beef is going up. Putting "grass fed, no antibiotics, no growth hormones" on a package lable of beef is now a selling point. That what I buy, as much as I can.

CD