Homes and kitchens in different countries

[LissaC]

[Mod.edit: this and a considerable number of the following posts have been moved to form a new topic (MG)]

I was super tired last night so I sat in from of the TV and watched the "Property Brothers", two american twin brothers who help people find new homes and renovate them for them. I got the feeling that most americans live in homes that would be considered mansions by european standards. Every family in the show is middle income and they all own detached houses with three to four bedrooms, two or three bathrooms, backyards, a garage, and a man cave, and most of the houses cost as much as a 2 bedroom apartment in the center of Lisbon I love living in Portugal but I'd definitely love to have a house like that!

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

I was super tired last night so I sat in from of the TV and watched the "Property Brothers", two american twin brothers who help people find new homes and renovate them for them. I got the feeling that most americans live in homes that would be considered mansions by european standards. Every family in the show is middle income and they all own detached houses with three to four bedrooms, two or three bathrooms, backyards, a garage, and a man cave, and most of the houses cost as much as a 2 bedroom apartment in the center of Lisbon I love living in Portugal but I'd definitely love to have a house like that!

I used to watch that show, loved it. However, I get what you mean. The American Dream is to own a detached home with a yard, fence, and a garage, but nobody talks about how much debt you will put yourself into to attain this dream. Also, in the historical sense, North America is a young country compared to Portugal, England, France etc, so there is still new construction going on all the time and cities expanding laterally. If you wanted to live in a historic city in USA like New York, Boston, San Francisco, there are plenty of apartments at extremely high prices, which might be more relatable to your experience.

 

[LissaC]

I used to watch that show, loved it. However, I get what you mean. The American Dream is to own a detached home with a yard, fence, and a garage, but nobody talks about how much debt you will put yourself into to attain this dream. Also, in the historical sense, North America is a young country compared to Portugal, England, France etc, so there is still new construction going on all the time and cities expanding laterally. If you wanted to live in a historic city in USA like New York, Boston, San Francisco, there are plenty of apartments at extremely high prices, which might be more relatable to your experience.

Yes. I've noticed my colleagues in New York live in apartments, which seem closer to the houses we have in Lisbon. By the way you can get somewhat affordable, comfortable houses in Portugal, but only in the countryside, far, far away from the big cities. With the pandemic and the advent of remote work I have more than a couple colleagues who moved to the countryside.

Another difference I noticed, all the houses in the program seemed to be built mostly from wood, even the internal walls and ceiling - most houses in Portugal are entirely made of bricks and concrete. The Property Brothers tear up and redo the entire inside of a house in 1 or 2 months, sometimes less - that kind of work usually takes months to years here in Portugal!

Anyway I realized, if I were to move to the US, I could safely dream of owning a spacious 3 bedroom detached house with a backyard Here in Portugal I'm not even looking at that kind of house because I think I'd never be able to afford it!

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Another difference I noticed, all the houses in the program seemed to be built mostly from wood, even the internal walls and ceiling - most houses in Portugal are entirely made of bricks and concrete. The Property Brothers tear up and redo the entire inside of a house in 1 or 2 months, sometimes less - that kind of work usually takes months to years here in Portugal!

Same thing in my homeland. In Jamaica, even a squatter builds their shack with concrete blocks and steel reinforcing bars.
Here in Florida, the houses are built on a concrete slab and the external walls are concrete for the first floor, walls of a second floor house are made of wood, and all internal walls are a wood frame with drywall panels (which you most likely saw on that tv show). This means that houses can be built/repaired/replaced very quickly, but I feel like they are not "built to last" as is the tradition in the Old World (Europe or European colonies).

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

I was super tired last night so I sat in from of the TV and watched the "Property Brothers", two american twin brothers who help people find new homes and renovate them for them. I got the feeling that most americans live in homes that would be considered mansions by european standards. Every family in the show is middle income and they all own detached houses with three to four bedrooms, two or three bathrooms, backyards, a garage, and a man cave, and most of the houses cost as much as a 2 bedroom apartment in the center of Lisbon I love living in Portugal but I'd definitely love to have a house like that!

It often feels that way here in Australia as well except for city centers. We've got friend who basically the entire upper floor of their house isn't used. It's guests etc.
Both kids and parents have their own bedrooms on the ground floor and all have their own bathroom (and don't forget the ensuite and additional family bathroom upstairs). then there's three open plan kitchen sitting room, diner that's almost all of the downstairs front of the house and on top of that there's the laundry room. Garage is not used for the 4x4s but as storage....

I know the property we are in is actually considered small at 3 bedrooms and only 1 family bathroom. 2 of the bedrooms are huge. So big that 1 is the spare room with a double bed and 2 desks, my knitting stuff including the spinning wheels and all my roving (the stage before spinning) and there is plenty of space in the room for bookshelves... that's roughly the size of our main bedroom. The walk in wardrobe which is bedroom 3 is 2 wardrobes, 2 chests of drawers, a recumbent exercise bike and a full size treadmill. Yes there is still plenty of carpet space to hoover or get the ironing board out. It's really only the laundry room that's small. Room for the washing machine between the hot water heater and the laundry sink. The mud room (It's a farm house, so literally for taking off muddy garments and hanging them up) is the length of the kitchen and laundry.. loads of room in there but it could have been a tad wider... lol.
The only thing really lacking here is the veranda. It's concrete so not particularly nice and tbh, it's not as big as would be useful. A set of 4 chairs and a table cause problems getting passed to the steps. Not idea really but there we go. We can just about afford it so we're going to change the table and chairs instead. The free ones we picked up 5 years ago are coming to the end of their useable life now. The table has been repaired twice and sanded down and revarnished more than once. And whilst it could be done again, the chairs now need it and they are round not square backs so sanding them down would need to be done by hand... So i think we'll try to find the money to pay for new this year whet the shops re-open after the current covid lockdown ends.

 

[LissaC]

It often feels that way here in Australia as well except for city centers. We've got friend who basically the entire upper floor of their house isn't used. It's guests etc.
Both kids and parents have their own bedrooms on the ground floor and all have their own bathroom (and don't forget the ensuite and additional family bathroom upstairs). then there's three open plan kitchen sitting room, diner that's almost all of the downstairs front of the house and on top of that there's the laundry room. Garage is not used for the 4x4s but as storage....

I know the property we are in is actually considered small at 3 bedrooms and only 1 family bathroom. 2 of the bedrooms are huge. So big that 1 is the spare room with a double bed and 2 desks, my knitting stuff including the spinning wheels and all my roving (the stage before spinning) and there is plenty of space in the room for bookshelves... that's roughly the size of our main bedroom. The walk in wardrobe which is bedroom 3 is 2 wardrobes, 2 chests of drawers, a recumbent exercise bike and a full size treadmill. Yes there is still plenty of carpet space to hoover or get the ironing board out. It's really only the laundry room that's small. Room for the washing machine between the hot water heater and the laundry sink. The mud room (It's a farm house, so literally for taking off muddy garments and hanging them up) is the length of the kitchen and laundry.. loads of room in there but it could have been a tad wider... lol.
The only thing really lacking here is the veranda. It's concrete so not particularly nice and tbh, it's not as big as would be useful. A set of 4 chairs and a table cause problems getting passed to the steps. Not idea really but there we go. We can just about afford it so we're going to change the table and chairs instead. The free ones we picked up 5 years ago are coming to the end of their useable life now. The table has been repaired twice and sanded down and revarnished more than once. And whilst it could be done again, the chairs now need it and they are round not square backs so sanding them down would need to be done by hand... So i think we'll try to find the money to pay for new this year whet the shops re-open after the current covid lockdown ends.

That would be considered a rich person's house where I live But it sounds like a lovely house by the way, I'd love to have all that room and on top of that a veranda!

Another thing that really strikes me is how everyone LOVES an open plan and they want to tear down walls everywhere so they have a continuum of kitchen-living room-dining room. I'm a walls type of person, because I like to place the furniture against walls and no furniture in the middle of the room getting in the way. If the entire floor is an open plan, you need furniture in the middle of the space otherwise it looks too empty and not cosy at all. And the open plan kitchen - yeah I hate that, my kitchen is usually somewhat messy and if you have the kitchen open to the living room, when the kitchen is messy, the living room will be messy too! This is really just a personal preference as opposed to something cultural, most people my age love open kitchens and counter islands (I HATE counter islands!).

Also funny that so many people have laundry rooms and someone in the show was horified to find a house that had the washing machine and the dryer in the kitchen - every Portuguese house has these machines in the kitchen! Same as I'm horrified when I find houses that have the washing machine in the bathroom, which is pretty common in some countries as I've been told

 

[TastyReuben]

I got the feeling that most americans live in homes that would be considered mansions by european standards.

Possibly, but we do have some world-class poverty here as well. Like most places, there's a little of everything.

It's so varied here, a country this size, and depending on where you chose to buy, you can take $150,000US and buy a mansion, or not have enough for the down payment. California, NYC, Chicago, Wash DC, Boston...crazy expensive. Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, dirt cheap overall.

My niece just bought her first home, in LA. Trust me, it's nothing special, it's small, it's in decent-but-lived-in shape, built in the 1950's, postage stamp yard (it's all paved, actually, no grass), 3 bed/2 bath, but the overall size is 1100sq ft, so the rooms are small...over $1M.

Compare to my house...2500sq ft, 2 acre yard, 3 bed/2 bath plus bonus room, separate dining room, built in 2004...similar houses on my street have recently sold for $225K. And her property taxes would water your eyes, while mine are fairly reasonable.

I've got twice the house on more than four times the land, much newer, cheaper to own, and at a quarter of the price. It's all where you choose to live.

 

[caseydog]

I was super tired last night so I sat in from of the TV and watched the "Property Brothers", two american twin brothers who help people find new homes and renovate them for them. I got the feeling that most americans live in homes that would be considered mansions by european standards. Every family in the show is middle income and they all own detached houses with three to four bedrooms, two or three bathrooms, backyards, a garage, and a man cave, and most of the houses cost as much as a 2 bedroom apartment in the center of Lisbon I love living in Portugal but I'd definitely love to have a house like that!

I don't like that show, but you are not that far off on American homes. Now, there are places, like NYC, and the larger cities in California where homes are small, and cost a fortune. But, in other places, like Texas, you can get a lot of house for a modest amount of money. My house would be worth well over a million dollars in Los Angeles, but in Frisco, Texas, it is worth about $300K. Three bedrooms, 2.5 Bathrooms (two full bathrooms and a "half-bath" -- toilet and sink). Also, a two car garage -- and a man cave .

CD

 

[LissaC]

I feel like a lot has to do with Portugal being a small country. You can buy huge, very affordable houses in the Portuguese countryside, but a lot of people think the countryside isn't liveable because there isn't good infrastructure which means you need to drive 1 hour to get a supermarket and you're hours drive away from a restaurant, a shopping mall or a theatre. But I remember my first American boss, who lived in Atlanta, telling he could drive 3 hours just to get to work. Or my colleague from Dallas who lives something like a 3hr drive from her boss who's based in Austin and she thinks that's pretty close - I could end up in neighbooring Spain if I drove for 3 hours here in Portugal! She drives for 3 hours and she didn't even leave Texas The size of the country is massive. Our countryside is smaller, hence so not well equipped, and the idea of driving 3 hours to go to the mall is insane for us,we're just not used to that scale.

And there's huge differences in house prices across the country too - a couple I'm friends with just purchased a house in the countryside, a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom detached house with a backyard and a garage and a small mini house in the backyard (2 rooms, 1 bathroom) - for the same price they'd pay for a 1 bedroom house in the suburbs where I live.

Still - I LOVE looking at these homes and even did a bit of window online shopping for homes in the US, not because I plan on moving but because I love looking at beautiful homes and even better if they're affordable

 

[caseydog]

Yes. I've noticed my colleagues in New York live in apartments, which seem closer to the houses we have in Lisbon. By the way you can get somewhat affordable, comfortable houses in Portugal, but only in the countryside, far, far away from the big cities. With the pandemic and the advent of remote work I have more than a couple colleagues who moved to the countryside.

Another difference I noticed, all the houses in the program seemed to be built mostly from wood, even the internal walls and ceiling - most houses in Portugal are entirely made of bricks and concrete. The Property Brothers tear up and redo the entire inside of a house in 1 or 2 months, sometimes less - that kind of work usually takes months to years here in Portugal!

Anyway I realized, if I were to move to the US, I could safely dream of owning a spacious 3 bedroom detached house with a backyard Here in Portugal I'm not even looking at that kind of house because I think I'd never be able to afford it!

Most homes here are Built of wood frames, with brick (or other) facades. My house is all brick on the outside, but there is a wood frame underneath.

Some places in the older cities of the Northeast, like NYC and Boston, you will find all brick and concrete block construction, but those structures are a well over 100 years old -- as much as 300 years.

Some places, like California, you can't safely have a home made of concrete block and brick, because such a house would collapse in an earthquake. Houses there have to be able to "flex," in an earthquake, which leaves them damaged, but they don't fall down and kill the people inside them.

CD

 

[LissaC]

Most homes here are Built of wood frames, with brick (or other) facades. My house is all brick on the outside, but there is a wood frame underneath.

Some places in the older cities of the Northeast, like NYC and Boston, you will find all brick and concrete block construction, but those structures are a well over 100 years old -- as much as 300 years.

Some places, like California, you can't safely have a home made of concrete block and brick, because such a house would collapse in an earthquake. Houses there have to be able to "flex," in an earthquake, which leaves them damaged, but they don't fall down and kill the people inside them.

CD

I saw something somewhat similar in Hong Kong, their scaffolding is made of bamboo because it gets through the storms and typhoons much better. I like the idea of wood frames for the flexibility, as long as it isolates the sound well.

Also, Portuguese homes don't have heating or cooling systems, modern houses and well to do people get AC or central heating but most of us don't have that. I was surprised to learn from my Dallas colleague that every house in Dallas needs to have AC and if you can't afford the state will sponsor it for you - our government tells us to stay inside with window blinds closed during heatwaves And Portuguese homes are terrible when it comes to energy efficiency, most houses are cold in the winter and hot in the summer, seriously I know a couple people who moved from colder countries to Portugal and they say they never been as cold as inside their house in Portugal!

 

[caseydog]

That would be considered a rich person's house where I live But it sounds like a lovely house by the way, I'd love to have all that room and on top of that a veranda!

Another thing that really strikes me is how everyone LOVES an open plan and they want to tear down walls everywhere so they have a continuum of kitchen-living room-dining room. I'm a walls type of person, because I like to place the furniture against walls and no furniture in the middle of the room getting in the way. If the entire floor is an open plan, you need furniture in the middle of the space otherwise it looks too empty and not cosy at all. And the open plan kitchen - yeah I hate that, my kitchen is usually somewhat messy and if you have the kitchen open to the living room, when the kitchen is messy, the living room will be messy too! This is really just a personal preference as opposed to something cultural, most people my age love open kitchens and counter islands (I HATE counter islands!).

Also funny that so many people have laundry rooms and someone in the show was horified to find a house that had the washing machine and the dryer in the kitchen - every Portuguese house has these machines in the kitchen! Same as I'm horrified when I find houses that have the washing machine in the bathroom, which is pretty common in some countries as I've been told

Oh yes, the open plan is all the rage here. I like it, myself. My house is very open. I can stand in the kitchen and cook, while talking to my friends in the living room. My house is a two story, and I can stand in my upstairs loft, and look down at the living room downstairs. My master suite (bedroom/bathroom) is closed off -- a nice "private space."

CD

 

[TastyReuben]

A lot of those shows, whether it's house shopping or remodeling or whatever...I don't think they represent a lot of "average" houses here. Face it, average doesn't bring in the ratings. Viewers want to see big or quirky or historic, or whatever.

Here's a house (I hope you can pull this up) that'll never end up on one of those shows:

88 Orchard Rd, Union Township, OH, 45177 | realtor.com®

That's around the corner and a couple of miles down the road from me.

Anyway, the driving thing is the one thing I don't like. It's only 15 minutes by car to get to a decent grocery store, but it's still annoying. There's no bringing food from a restaurant back, because it's lukewarm or worse by the time you get back to the house, there's no pizza delivery where I live, either.

 

[caseydog]

I saw something somewhat similar in Hong Kong, their scaffolding is made of bamboo because it gets through the storms and typhoons much better. I like the idea of wood frames for the flexibility, as long as it isolates the sound well.

Also, Portuguese homes don't have heating or cooling systems, modern houses and well to do people get AC or central heating but most of us don't have that. I was surprised to learn from my Dallas colleague that every house in Dallas needs to have AC and if you can't afford the state will sponsor it for you - our government tells us to stay inside with window blinds closed during heatwaves And Portuguese homes are terrible when it comes to energy efficiency, most houses are cold in the winter and hot in the summer, seriously I know a couple people who moved from colder countries to Portugal and they say they never been as cold as inside their house in Portugal!

Yes, the heat here in Dallas used to take the lives of a lot of people in hot summers, mostly elderly people on limited incomes. Now, there are programs to provide the poor with room air conditioners, and money for the electricity to keep at least one room in the house cool.

Like most two story homes in Dallas, mine has two separate heat/AC systems -- one for each story.

As for energy efficiency, that's where those old brick and concrete homes are not so good. The nice thing about the wood frame homes is that you fill the gaps between the wooden studs with insulation. Some of the most advanced homes here stay comfortable all year and use very little energy.

When we lost electricity during the "Big Freeze" of 2021, I sat and slept by the fireplace, and my house never dropped below 56F/13C, even with the temperature outside at 0F/-18C.

CD

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Same as I'm horrified when I find houses that have the washing machine in the bathroom, which is pretty common in some countries as I've been told

In the UK we had the washing machine in the kitchen. But The tumble dryer (I hate them) was housed in the bathroom which was carpetted and huge because it had been a bedroom pre the days of running water in houses.

My parents' last home had both the washing machine and the dryer in the bathroom and in Australia if a house does not have a seperate utility or laundry room, then you'll find both washing machine and drier in the bathroom as well (but these are tiled and with a separate drain in the floor usually close to the shower drain).

Again in Australia, it is exceptionally common to have tumble dryers wall mounted and upsidedown. In fact, the actually print the instructions for buttons and dials in both directions in different colours so that you can easily use it that way. I'd not come across this until I came to Australia.

This is what I mean (not my photo)