Lifestyle changes

Morning Glory said:
Windigo has been through all these type of options. Her stepson is extremely severely mentally ill and has been diagnosed as such. The system in the Netherlands is not the same as in the US or the UK. Hope you don't mind me speaking on your behalf Windigo. As you know, I've followed your story closely and I know you are acting in the only way possible after exhausting all other options.
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Thank you for explaining! Thats how it is. :hug:

I am too tired to type, coming back tomorrow!
 
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Windigo said:
Of course he does, I understand you have a lot on your plate yourself but I've written extensively about it on here. I am very tired so getting back at you later. In short:

He has classic autism, developmental delay ( hes 21 but thinks like a 12 yo) , incontinence without physical cause ( and he uses it to pressure people, he can actually hold it but doesnt care or want to) , severe OCD, light auditory hallucinations, and ADHD.

Things like forced psychiatric evaluationa only happen here when he's declared insane, no matter his list of diagnoses. He's still sane by law.
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I apologize if I stepped on your toes. Morning Glory's post helped me put this in perspective. I have always lived in the US and there is no way anyone that defiant wouldn't be sectioned immediately. My husband was able to do it to me twice and my parents tried a few years back (they just wanted to become my guardians so they could take my divorce settlement).

My heart hurts for you, dear Windigo. I am especially proud of you for sticking to your guns and your goals when all this is raining down. :love:
 
mjd said:
I can't recall if I mentioned this to you before but the mental health clinic is our town owns five properties. Each one has about 5-6 apartments in them. There is a shared kitchen and activities room and group therapy a few times per week.

I don't know if you can find something like that where you are? I would call the local domestic violence center, social worker at the hospital and attorneys if I was facing that situation.

Does he have a mental health provider or does he refuse therapy?
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Yes we can find such places, but they are not for 'complicated' cases like his. And the ones that did want him threw him out because he did not comply with any rules, did his business through the whole building and broke their furniture.

We've already done everything you mentioned the past two years, he has a whole team working with him yet they leave every 6 months or so too because they get frustrated with him.

Simply put, there are almost no options. Right now almost the only place he can still go is institutions for the criminally insane, but he's no criminal (yet).
 
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mjd said:
Oh, dear. I read this yesterday and meant to respond. It's been a bit stressful here lately. I am so sorry you are still going through this. How old is he? IIRC, early 20s.

I don't know how it works where you are but here you can get the police to take someone to a mental health hospital where they are evaluated and held for at least 72 hours. My husband did that to me twice (so he could tell the judge I was unfit. She completely ignored the fact that the psychiatrist's records showed I didn't need to be there).

Can you get some kind of emergency injunction through his doctor?

Oh, hon. I wish I could fix this for you. Please know that I care. :hug:
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The police came here once when he had been butting his head against the wall and threatening us all day, they asked him 'are you feeling OK', he said 'I'm fine' and faked some normalcy and the police left. They sent a doctor, who basically asked the same questions and by then he had calmed down so nothing happened.

It doesn't quite work like the states here.
 
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Windigo said:
Yes we can find such places, but they are not for 'complicated' cases like his. And the ones that did want him threw him out because he did not comply with any rules, did his business through the whole building and broke their furniture.

We've already done everything you mentioned the past two years, he has a whole team working with him yet they leave every 6 months or so too because they get frustrated with him.

Simply put, there are almost no options. Right now almost the only place he can still go is institutions for the criminally insane, but he's no criminal (yet).
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It is just unbelievable. How can we send people to outer space but can't take of problems here on Earth. It's unconscionable. Here, in the US, people treat animals better than they treat humans. Just unreal.
Windigo said:
The police came here once when he had been butting his head against the wall and threatening us all day, they asked him 'are you feeling OK', he said 'I'm fine' and faked some normalcy and the police left. They sent a doctor, who basically asked the same questions and by then he had calmed down so nothing happened.

It doesn't quite work like the states here.
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I had to learn this the hard way (I lost everything). Document, document, document if for no other reason to get your thoughts on paper.

Does he have a regular primary care physician and/or psychiatrist? Can you enlist their help?

You mentioned a younger brother. Is this your husband's son? Protecting him is essential at this point.
I know of two different situations in which kids "got stuck".

In one case, a family had a boy and a girl. The boy sexually assaulted the girl and the family sought counseling. The counselor called the police and it went from that. The said the boy can't say in the same trailer where the girl lived. Basically, the family was divided over and sadly blamed the girl for causing so much trouble. ;-(

In the other, a mother had four kids. Two of the girls said their mom's new husband sexually assaulted them. The mom and stepdad were arrested and the kids were placed with their maternal grandmother. Here's the sticky part. The mom went to her mom's house every day to spend time with her children. Essentially, the "separating the kids from their alleged abusers" is ridiculous if the offending parent still has access to their kids. Besides that, one of the girls and one of the boys was sexually abused by an older cousin. Just unreal how these policies destroy families.

What is the criteria for having him declared "insane"? If that happens, are you and/or your husband just stuck with being his guardians? Or, would that basically emancipate him to state (however that's defined where you are) care.
Windigo said:
I hope you feel better soon too dear :hug:
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Thank you. It's about half past 11P. I'm going to try to sleep a bit. Big hugs back to you, sweetie. :hug:
 
mjd said:
It is just unbelievable. How can we send people to outer space but can't take of problems here on Earth. It's unconscionable. Here, in the US, people treat animals better than they treat humans. Just unreal.

I had to learn this the hard way (I lost everything). Document, document, document if for no other reason to get your thoughts on paper.

Does he have a regular primary care physician and/or psychiatrist? Can you enlist their help?

You mentioned a younger brother. Is this your husband's son? Protecting him is essential at this point.
I know of two different situations in which kids "got stuck".

In one case, a family had a boy and a girl. The boy sexually assaulted the girl and the family sought counseling. The counselor called the police and it went from that. The said the boy can't say in the same trailer where the girl lived. Basically, the family was divided over and sadly blamed the girl for causing so much trouble. ;-(

In the other, a mother had four kids. Two of the girls said their mom's new husband sexually assaulted them. The mom and stepdad were arrested and the kids were placed with their maternal grandmother. Here's the sticky part. The mom went to her mom's house every day to spend time with her children. Essentially, the "separating the kids from their alleged abusers" is ridiculous if the offending parent still has access to their kids. Besides that, one of the girls and one of the boys was sexually abused by an older cousin. Just unreal how these policies destroy families.

What is the criteria for having him declared "insane"? If that happens, are you and/or your husband just stuck with being his guardians? Or, would that basically emancipate him to state (however that's defined where you are) care.

Thank you. It's about half past 11P. I'm going to try to sleep a bit. Big hugs back to you, sweetie. :hug:
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I answered whether he had a psychatrist in one of the posts you quoted ' he has a whole team working with him yet they leave every 6 months or so too because they get frustrated with him. ' No psychiatrist has stuck out longer than 6 months, and if we get any willing to do it they're usually bottom of the barrel folk who do this because they have no other choice.
Patients like my stepson are not a popular kind, because there's no succes or profit to be had from them. Our mental health care has been in a crisis for the past 12 years, and it's only going to get worse because our government doesn't care and people keep voting on parties who don't care about these people either. Our prime minister said 'well if you're mentally ill you should just think differently'. That is the voice of the nation.

Here is an article in English about it:
Mental healthcare: the bigger the problem, the longer the waiting list
The approach to mental healthcare waiting lists is so diffuse that patients with serious psychological problems, often caused by multiple disorders, cannot be helped.
This article is dated, and speaks about an average of 4 months waiting time. Since the COVID crisis, a year is more common even for the most serious cases like my stepson. If they get helped at all.

Yes, both children are my husband's sons. And we agree the younger one needs protection from the older one. Unfortunately, my husband's ex thinks differently about that and still visits his brother with him weekly. We've noticed a decline in the youngest's wellbeing since she started doing that. But my husband's ex is also mentally ill, so she can't be reasoned with either. Both boys are mature though, the youngest is 19 and the oldest 21.

The criteria to be declared insane is to be a danger to yourself and your environment, you have to be found to be in such a state by a psychiatrist and health care workers, and reviewed by a judge. Right now his file is being examined by a judge. If he is found to be insane, he will be legally represented by a curator and guardian.
We have chosen for the curator to not be a family member, because the care for my stepson has caused both parents (and me) to have a burnout and we're simply no longer able to care for him. The curator will be a trusted caregiver who is the only one who stuck with my stepson for the past 10 years.
 
Windigo said:
I answered whether he had a psychatrist in one of the posts you quoted ' he has a whole team working with him yet they leave every 6 months or so too because they get frustrated with him. ' No psychiatrist has stuck out longer than 6 months, and if we get any willing to do it they're usually bottom of the barrel folk who do this because they have no other choice.
Patients like my stepson are not a popular kind, because there's no succes or profit to be had from them. Our mental health care has been in a crisis for the past 12 years, and it's only going to get worse because our government doesn't care and people keep voting on parties who don't care about these people either. Our prime minister said 'well if you're mentally ill you should just think differently'. That is the voice of the nation.

Here is an article in English about it:
Mental healthcare: the bigger the problem, the longer the waiting list
The approach to mental healthcare waiting lists is so diffuse that patients with serious psychological problems, often caused by multiple disorders, cannot be helped.
This article is dated, and speaks about an average of 4 months waiting time. Since the COVID crisis, a year is more common even for the most serious cases like my stepson. If they get helped at all.

Yes, both children are my husband's sons. And we agree the younger one needs protection from the older one. Unfortunately, my husband's ex thinks differently about that and still visits his brother with him weekly. We've noticed a decline in the youngest's wellbeing since she started doing that. But my husband's ex is also mentally ill, so she can't be reasoned with either. Both boys are mature though, the youngest is 19 and the oldest 21.

The criteria to be declared insane is to be a danger to yourself and your environment, you have to be found to be in such a state by a psychiatrist and health care workers, and reviewed by a judge. Right now his file is being examined by a judge. If he is found to be insane, he will be legally represented by a curator and guardian.
We have chosen for the curator to not be a family member, because the care for my stepson has caused both parents (and me) to have a burnout and we're simply no longer able to care for him. The curator will be a trusted caregiver who is the only one who stuck with my stepson for the past 10 years.
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The trusted caregiver sounds like a ray of hope in all this. Where would he live if the judge finds him to be insane?

I can only imagine the stress all of this is causing to the whole family. I hope something can give and you get answers soon. :hug:
 
mjd said:
The trusted caregiver sounds like a ray of hope in all this. Where would he live if the judge finds him to be insane?

I can only imagine the stress all of this is causing to the whole family. I hope something can give and you get answers soon. :hug:
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We don't know where he would live, the same problem persists. It's just that we can place him in involuntary treatment when he's declared insane, which is currently unavailable to us. Our hope is that he can be placed in a long term involuntary care home. That feels cruel, but he is not capable of taking care of himself OR realising that he can't live like this and his only other option is homelessness which is worse.
 
On my progress: had weigh in today, still lost nothing, still gained nothing. Reducing my calorie intake slightly to see if that helps to break through this plateau.

Walking is going well, I upped my fitness goal in the WW app and reached it. Now hoping that my sleep will be better next week too, that may give some energy to get the scale to budge. At least I slept well tonight for a change.
 
Windigo said:
We don't know where he would live, the same problem persists. It's just that we can place him in involuntary treatment when he's declared insane, which is currently unavailable to us. Our hope is that he can be placed in a long term involuntary care home. That feels cruel, but he is not capable of taking care of himself OR realising that he can't live like this and his only other option is homelessness which is worse.
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I would argue against you on this point. You're just flat out wrong. Sorry to be disagreeable but I stand my ground on this as there is not even a hint of cruelty in any of your posts.

I "see" a woman who stands with her husband to work in the best interests of his children.

I "see" a woman who is willing to go the distance to advocate for a young man that can't advocate for himself.

I "see" a woman who, in spite of everything on her plate, has set and met her personal goals.

You can try to argue with me but you won't win. :hug:
 
Windigo said:
On my progress: had weigh in today, still lost nothing, still gained nothing. Reducing my calorie intake slightly to see if that helps to break through this plateau.

Walking is going well, I upped my fitness goal in the WW app and reached it. Now hoping that my sleep will be better next week too, that may give some energy to get the scale to budge. At least I slept well tonight for a change.
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Glad you got some rest. That is so important as it gives the body and mind time to rejuvenate.
 
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