Lost in Translation: How Dishes Evolve

caseydog said:
I know she is making biscuits. The pancakes were a suggestion for another use of buckwheat flour.

Sounds like you SIL did it wrong. I find buckwheat pancakes to be quite good.

CD
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That was very very nice of you, and that is how I understood it, I will be using the buckwheat flour, will definitely try the recipe you posted, just to kick off with a good recipe and follow a recipe, and I looove pancakes, and if they are made of the ingredients that are good for me, great!! I will be making the biscuits with AP flour and follow those recipes I was so kindly provided with yesterday ...so everything is perfectly fine. You are all so nice to me, I feel wonderful being here. Thank you all for that.

Oh and the blinis idea reminded me of the "piroshki s miasom" I had in Russia, it might have been 1989...I woud love to try to recreate those at home in the coming weeks or over the Easter break...I remember they were yum, and we got them in transit from a stand, a guy was making them on the spot. I do also remember the non alcoholic beverage (we were teens then) of green colour, we were offered at the hotel restaurant, I think that was in St Petersburg, they told us it was made of Siberian grass. The borsch was goood. But I can't remember any blinis, strange.

And the more recent trip to Moscow in 2017 I was taken to some ok nice restaurants, but I do not remember any of the food, isn't that sad? I might have been under adrenaline ...however upon searching for the Russian piroshki, I ran into Polish pierogi! I guess every culture has its own version of dumplings or pastry with meat or other fillings...for this moment I would go with the Russian piroshki...
Do you know which evolved from which?
 
Timenspace said:
That was very very nice of you, and that is how I understood it, I will be using the buckwheat flour, will definitely try the recipe you posted, just to kick off with a good recipe and follow a recipe, and I looove pancakes, and if they are made of the ingredients that are good for me, great!! I will be making the biscuits with AP flour and follow those recipes I was so kindly provided with yesterday ...so everything is perfectly fine. You are all so nice to me, I feel wonderful being here. Thank you all for that.

Oh and the blinis idea reminded me of the "piroshki s miasom" I had in Russia, it might have been 1989...I woud love to try to recreate those at home in the coming weeks or over the Easter break...I remember they were yum, and we got them in transit from a stand, a guy was making them on the spot. I do also remember the non alcoholic beverage (we were teens then) of green colour, we were offered at the hotel restaurant, I think that was in St Petersburg, they told us it was made of Siberian grass. The borsch was goood. But I can't remember any blinis, strange.

And the more recent trip to Moscow in 2017 I was taken to some ok nice restaurants, but I do not remember any of the food, isn't that sad? I might have been under adrenaline ...however upon searching for the Russian piroshki, I ran into Polish pierogi! I guess every culture has its own version of dumplings or pastry with meat or other fillings...for this moment I would go with the Russian piroshki...
Do you know which evolved from which?
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I love Pierogi! There are many descendants of Polish immigrants where I live in NE Ohio, and there is a vendor who calls herself "The Pierogi Lady" who makes wonderful and delicious pierogi with unusual fillings. I love her wild mushroom and goat cheese pierogi especially. She also makes one with lobster that is very good. I do not know anything about piroshki.
 
JAS_OH1 said:
I love Pierogi! There are many descendants of Polish immigrants where I live in NE Ohio, and there is a vendor who calls herself "The Pierogi Lady" who makes wonderful and delicious pierogi with unusual fillings. I love her wild mushroom and goat cheese pierogi especially. She also makes one with lobster that is very good. I do not know anything about piroshki.
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Isn't that amaziing? Wild mushroom and goat cheese sounds exquisit! Love it from the mere letters ...I studied in Poland for 6 months, and I do not remember we were offered pierogi...if I speak to my co-students I might ask if they remember...I remember the excellent cakes we had in the second trimester offered in the afternoons...

This is how I remember the piroshki:
59107


And this is a sliced one:
59108
 
Timenspace said:
Isn't that amaziing? Wild mushroom and goat cheese sounds exquisit! Love it from the mere letters ...I studied in Poland for 6 months, and I do not remember we were offered pierogi...if I speak to my co-students I might ask if they remember...I remember the excellent cakes we had in the second trimester offered in the afternoons...

This is how I remember the piroshki:
View attachment 59107

And this is a sliced one:View attachment 59108
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They look delicious!

I like to pan fry my pierogis with just a bit of olive oil until they are golden brown on the outside.
1615671316886.png


Pierogi Guide: The Pierogi Lady

59110


I will sometimes fry slivered onion with them and then I top them with sour cream and chives or scallion (green onion). I love my onions, LOL!

Edited to add that she is from Akron but travels around Ohio and to nearby states...yes she will be in Michigan at the fairgrounds this month.
 
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flyinglentris said:
The judgement that the American palate is bland is erroneous. The American palate is no less bland than any other country's commercial food preparation output.

CB is an international cooking web site and we see people here from many different countries, our fellow members, rejecting certain things all the time, either for health reasons or by preference. This is an issue that every commercial producer from grocery prepared meals to restaurant entrees deal with by toning down their offerings toward the bland. It is not a generic palate issue at all. It is a market issue.

In some markets, small markets that local to small population centers, the toning down is less severe. But in large population centers, restauranteers and commercial food goods providers are forced to find an appeal to a percentage population factor that will accept what they put out. And this is done by trial and error or survey. This is the source of generic blandness is commercial food offerings, the deviations from the original potency of some home spun foods.

The American palate, indeed any country's palate often finds these foods bland and either finds a restaurant that they like or they modify the food they buy from the store. I do it all the time to make those foods more likeable and palatable to me.

Therein lies the truth about the American palate.
'
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First of all, I didn't say that the American palate is 100% bland...I said generally bland. Secondly, I was stepping into the mindset that I know for a fact existed in the restauranteurs back then. They need to make money, and they want customers. If you go back 40-50 years, the culinary landscape was quite different from what it is today. If daring, exciting foods were really viable in the 1970s, wouldn't there have been more of them? How many Vietnamese restaurants were there in suburban Cleveland? How many sushi places existed anywhere except possibly on the coasts?

I agree that things are different now. The reason there are more culinary options is because people want them and are willing to pay for them. Maybe it was different where you lived, but even the Bay Area in California (we were in Palo Alto until 1975) wasn't exactly teaming with options, other than Chinatown.

I can say the same about beer. In 1980 in the US, you had Bud, Miller, Coors, and if you're in the northern US also Labatt and Molson. The fancy beers were Michelob, Lowenbrau, and Heineken. That was basically it. But, in the 1990s, there was an explosion of microbreweries, and things are infinitely better now.

The American palate isn't beyond hope, but I know a lot of people who prefer bland, safe foods to things that really challenge them. I know that these people aren't on this forum, but they are certainly out there.
 
Timenspace said:
That was very very nice of you, and that is how I understood it, I will be using the buckwheat flour, will definitely try the recipe you posted, just to kick off with a good recipe and follow a recipe, and I looove pancakes, and if they are made of the ingredients that are good for me, great!! I will be making the biscuits with AP flour and follow those recipes I was so kindly provided with yesterday ...so everything is perfectly fine. You are all so nice to me, I feel wonderful being here. Thank you all for that.

Oh and the blinis idea reminded me of the "piroshki s miasom" I had in Russia, it might have been 1989...I woud love to try to recreate those at home in the coming weeks or over the Easter break...I remember they were yum, and we got them in transit from a stand, a guy was making them on the spot. I do also remember the non alcoholic beverage (we were teens then) of green colour, we were offered at the hotel restaurant, I think that was in St Petersburg, they told us it was made of Siberian grass. The borsch was goood. But I can't remember any blinis, strange.

And the more recent trip to Moscow in 2017 I was taken to some ok nice restaurants, but I do not remember any of the food, isn't that sad? I might have been under adrenaline ...however upon searching for the Russian piroshki, I ran into Polish pierogi! I guess every culture has its own version of dumplings or pastry with meat or other fillings...for this moment I would go with the Russian piroshki...
Do you know which evolved from which?
Click to expand...

My family originally settled in Pittsburgh, PA. So all of my dad's family is from there. I only lived there a few years. But, Polish pierogis are a big deal in Pittsburgh.

CD
 
The Late Night Gourmet said:
First of all, I didn't say that the American palate is 100% bland...I said generally bland. Secondly, I was stepping into the mindset that I know for a fact existed in the restauranteurs back then. They need to make money, and they want customers. If you go back 40-50 years, the culinary landscape was quite different from what it is today. If daring, exciting foods were really viable in the 1970s, wouldn't there have been more of them? How many Vietnamese restaurants were there in suburban Cleveland? How many sushi places existed anywhere except possibly on the coasts?

I agree that things are different now. The reason there are more culinary options is because people want them and are willing to pay for them. Maybe it was different where you lived, but even the Bay Area in California (we were in Palo Alto until 1975) wasn't exactly teaming with options, other than Chinatown.

I can say the same about beer. In 1980 in the US, you had Bud, Miller, Coors, and if you're in the northern US also Labatt and Molson. The fancy beers were Michelob, Lowenbrau, and Heineken. That was basically it. But, in the 1990s, there was an explosion of microbreweries, and things are infinitely better now.

The American palate isn't beyond hope, but I know a lot of people who prefer bland, safe foods to things that really challenge them. I know that these people aren't on this forum, but they are certainly out there.
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Right, and then there are the people who think that if they add a lot of salt or hot sauce to their food that makes it flavorful. Well I suppose it isn't bland, but IMO that isn't going to make the food taste great, either.

My husband's friend from high school used to come over for dinner with his wife occasionally, and he would drive me crazy by salting his food heavily before he even tasted it. I am one of those who always tastes and finishes my cooking before serving it, so I would beg him to please taste the food before he added salt. He would do that, and then add salt. It got to the point where I removed the salt shaker from the table before they came over and he would have to ask for it before I reluctantly provided it. They got divorced and we stayed friends with her but not him so much, so I don't have to deal with that anymore, LOL. There were times I wanted to slap that salt shaker out of his hands.

Then my cousin who lives in SE Texas near the Louisiana border had a husband who put Cajun hot sauce or seasoning on everything. There is this one called "Slap Yo Mama" that he loved in particular. I made spaghetti with meatballs (sorry MypinchofItaly, LOL) for my cousins and aunts one night while visiting them. Now keep in mind that their idea of spaghetti is to boil some pasta until it is mush and serve it with some jarred sauce like Ragu heated up in the microwave (which is awful but very popular in the US). I took care and used fresh herbs and garlic and made the meatballs using veal, beef, and pork sausage. It was really, really delicious. My cousin warned me that Tommy was going to put Cajun seasoning on it before eating it, so after serving it, I requested that he please wait until he tasted it, overly confident in my flavor profiles, apparently. He gingerly ate some of it, looked at me, and said, "What is this meat and these spices?" I explained the ingredients, and he nodded solemnly, then said, "Is it okay for me to add my hot sauce now?" :laugh:

So, there are many people eat what they are used to eating and are comfortable with. That's just the way it is!
 
The Late Night Gourmet said:
First of all, I didn't say that the American palate is 100% bland...I said generally bland. Secondly, I was stepping into the mindset that I know for a fact existed in the restauranteurs back then. They need to make money, and they want customers. If you go back 40-50 years, the culinary landscape was quite different from what it is today. If daring, exciting foods were really viable in the 1970s, wouldn't there have been more of them? How many Vietnamese restaurants were there in suburban Cleveland? How many sushi places existed anywhere except possibly on the coasts?

I agree that things are different now. The reason there are more culinary options is because people want them and are willing to pay for them. Maybe it was different where you lived, but even the Bay Area in California (we were in Palo Alto until 1975) wasn't exactly teaming with options, other than Chinatown.

I can say the same about beer. In 1980 in the US, you had Bud, Miller, Coors, and if you're in the northern US also Labatt and Molson. The fancy beers were Michelob, Lowenbrau, and Heineken. That was basically it. But, in the 1990s, there was an explosion of microbreweries, and things are infinitely better now.

The American palate isn't beyond hope, but I know a lot of people who prefer bland, safe foods to things that really challenge them. I know that these people aren't on this forum, but they are certainly out there.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying. I think the US went through a bit of a culinary slump, for the average person, in the 60s and 70s, and into the 80s. Wealthy people probably had more adventurous offerings, but your average restaurant was not going to go out on a culinary limb.

Home cooking also seemed to focus on convenience more than flavors. Our family had one of the first microwave ovens in the neighborhood, and the neighbors came to see it boil water. :laugh: That invention really took its toll on quality cooking.

The microbrewery movement has really been something to watch. It's amazing how many beers are available now. There have always been a few regional beers. Shiner beers (Spoetzl Brewery) has been around since 1909. It is available all over the US now, but when I was in college, it was only available in parts of Texas. I remember Iron City beer in Pittsburgh, and Hudepohl in Cincinnati. But now, there are dozens of microbreweries in the Dallas area, alone.

CD
 
caseydog said:
Thanks for clarifying. I think the US went through a bit of a culinary slump, for the average person, in the 60s and 70s, and into the 80s. Wealthy people probably had more adventurous offerings, but your average restaurant was not going to go out on a culinary limb.

Home cooking also seemed to focus on convenience more than flavors. Our family had one of the first microwave ovens in the neighborhood, and the neighbors came to see it boil water. :laugh: That invention really took its toll on quality cooking.

The microbrewery movement has really been something to watch. It's amazing how many beers are available now. There have always been a few regional beers. Shiner beers (Spoetzl Brewery) has been around since 1909. It is available all over the US now, but when I was in college, it was only available in parts of Texas. I remember Iron City beer in Pittsburgh, and Hudepohl in Cincinnati. But now, there are dozens of microbreweries in the Dallas area, alone.

CD
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Don't forget that before microwave ovens, TV dinners were quite popular. Those things were awful. I guess some people still eat those, you know those cheap Banquet and Swanson dinners with some sort of meat or facsimile thereof, and some with mashed potatoes that have the texture of glue? Ugh.
 
caseydog said:
My family originally settled in Pittsburgh, PA. So all of my dad's family is from there. I only lived there a few years. But, Polish pierogis are a big deal in Pittsburgh.

CD
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Thank you for sharing! I feel that is splendid! Good food really knows no boundaries and distances...so nice to hear that!
So were the pierogis like a go-to meal ... would you have them several times a week? Were there/are there may pierogi selling inns in Pittsburgh? Is it a certain area of the town or sprinkled all over?

Oh! I just remembered...I did have a Polish friend who works and lives in Germany, I might ask her for a recipe she considers to be as close to the original as possible. Or I could start from a net source... My to-do-meals list is getting longer, I love it!
 
Timenspace said:
Thank you for sharing! I feel that is splendid! Good food really knows no boundaries and distances...so nice to hear that!
So were the pierogis like a go-to meal ... would you have them several times a week? Were there/are there may pierogi selling inns in Pittsburgh? Is it a certain area of the town or sprinkled all over?

Oh! I just remembered...I did have a Polish friend who works and lives in Germany, I might ask her for a recipe she considers to be as close to the original as possible. Or I could start from a net source... My to-do-meals list is getting longer, I love it!
Click to expand...

Not really an every week kind of thing, at least for most people in Pittsburgh. There are a handful of restaurants that are known for their Pierogies, as well as other polish foods.

It is kind of like Texas BBQ -- not something you eat every week, but when you get a craving for it, you have to get some.

CD
 
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