Butter Chicken/murgh makhani origins and different ingredients

Morning Glory

Morning Glory

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Mod.comment: This post copied over and the following few moved from another thread, to form a new topic (MG). The subject began as a general discussion about using nuts in Indian curries

karadekoolaid said:
The dish looks great.
Was I here when you had that discussion? Because I most certainly would have backed you up!
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Yep! You certainly were here. It started here. It was originally a debate about whether 'butter chicken' contained nuts.

I don't use them in curry very often (its a personal choice as I prefer less calories) - but there is no doubt they are often used in curry - particularly korma. Also in Indian desserts/sweets.
 
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Missed it completely because I was travelling. No way on earth Murgh Makhani ( butter chicken) contains almonds or nuts, in my humble opinion. (although I´m sure someone can come up with an exception:cool:).
I´ve always considered a Butter Chicken recipe to be Punjabi - without any particular propriety - but it seems to fit.
Mughal cuisine would often use a base of cashew nuts, soaked in water, with caramelized onions, to create a "creamy" base for chicken. The nuts and the onions were pounded to a paste ( today, blended to smooth) to make the basis of the sauce - which then might have yoghurt or cream added.
I´ve got other recipes where almonds were used, but I think they were Kashmiri, not Punjabi.
 
karadekoolaid said:
Missed it completely because I was travelling. No way on earth Murgh Makhani ( butter chicken) contains almonds or nuts, in my humble opinion. (although I´m sure someone can come up with an exception:cool:).
I´ve always considered a Butter Chicken recipe to be Punjabi - without any particular propriety - but it seems to fit.
Mughal cuisine would often use a base of cashew nuts, soaked in water, with caramelized onions, to create a "creamy" base for chicken. The nuts and the onions were pounded to a paste ( today, blended to smooth) to make the basis of the sauce - which then might have yoghurt or cream added.
I´ve got other recipes where almonds were used, but I think they were Kashmiri, not Punjabi.
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It's not an exception, it's a very common way to prepare it and you'll find it all over the internet.
I think it just depends on the region of India it's prepared in, but that's often not mentioned in recipes
 
Windigo said:
It's not an exception, it's a very common way to prepare it and you'll find it all over the internet.
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Out of interest, I just checked a number of recipes on an Indian recipe site for Butter Chicken/murgh makhani. There were a few which contained nuts but most didn't. Apparently the dish was 'invented' in Delhi in the 1950's. If the story here is to be believed, the original didn't have nuts. I think it probably simply evolved in different ways, given that it is a world wide Indian restaurant dish.

The Butter Chicken Story - Shafali

Also here: What’s so Special About Butter Chicken, One of India’s Favorite Dishes?
 
Morning Glory said:
Out of interest, I just checked a number of recipes on an Indian recipe site for Butter Chicken/murgh makhani. There were a few which contained nuts but most didn't. Apparently the dish was 'invented' in Delhi in the 1950's. If the story here is to be believed, the original didn't have nuts. I think it probably simply evolved in different ways, given that it is a world wide Indian restaurant dish.

The Butter Chicken Story - Shafali

Also here: What’s so Special About Butter Chicken, One of India’s Favorite Dishes?
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Does that it's fewer mean its an exception.

I am nowhere saying it's the only way, but I am not sure why I'm being told my dish is somehow an exception when I only know it as the rule.
 
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Windigo said:
Does that it's fewer mean its an exception.
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No - course not. I was just looking at various recipes on an Indian recipe site out of interest. There is no real set recipe for butter chicken as far as I can tell. I think that karadekoolaid thought that it didn't include nuts because that was his experience and how he makes it. I wasn't entirely sure if it usually did or didn't. I've come to the conclusion that there are numerous different recipes and that lots do indeed include nuts!
 
I read somewhere that fenugreek seeds were a key ingredient - yet looking at the recipes for it on an Indian recipe site I found several didn't include them. In fact, the recipes are very varied. Several using nuts use them as a garnish rather than to make the sauce creamy.
 
Morning Glory said:
No - course not. I was just looking at various recipes on an Indian recipe site out of interest. There is no real set recipe for butter chicken as far as I can tell. I think that karadekoolaid thought that it didn't include nuts because that was his experience and how he makes it. I wasn't entirely sure if it usually did or didn't. I've come to the conclusion that there are numerous different recipes and that lots do indeed include nuts!
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As far as a restaurant coming up with butter chicken as a unique dish is highly unlikely. It's more likely that something resembling butter chicken has been done and served in many Indian homes for a very, very long time and was inspirational. Nuts have been consumed since ancient times in India and I suspect that nuts have found there way into pretty much every dish at one time or another. imo
 
I cook a heck of a lot of Indian food and I think "butter chicken" or " Chicken Tikka Masala" or "Murgh Makhani" is one of those dishes that never, ever has a definitive recipe. Everyone has their own interpretation, within certain limits.
I´d surmise that the use of nuts in a masala is a Mughlai influence; I´ve used cashews and caramelised onions in Chicken Korma and Navratan Korma to create a smooth, silky texture, and ground almonds to thicken a Kashmiri mushroom dish.
 
Morning Glory said:
Its the influence of Persian cuisine I think, from the Mughlai empire.
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The Mughlai Empire was pretty extense, from Uzbekistan to Turkey. However, the evident influence of Persian cuisine ( cream, yoghurt, nuts, dried fruits, etc.) is very evident.
This was then absorbed by Hindu cuisine and adapted to vegetarian cuisine. Navratan Korma and Malai Kofta are supreme examples.
 
Absolutely. Both dishes are Hindu creativity with Mughlai ingredients/dishes.
Now back to Butter Chicken...
Here´s my recipe, which I´ve made at least 1,000 times since I first gave an Indian Food Course in 2011.Recipe Murgh Makhani/Butter Chicken/Chicken Tikka Masala
Despite the fact that some believe India to be a mega-vegetarian society, that´s probably not true, and chicken doesn´t have the stigma of "pork" (for Muslims) or "beef"(for Hindus). Plus, many Hindus fail to report meat-eating, for religious reasons.
So Butter Chicken/ Murgh Makhani was supposedly invented around 1948 and morphed into Chicken Tikka Masala ( The UK´s most popular dish) a couple of decades later. Basically it´s marinated chicken in a creamy tomato sauce.
Observations? I´d have thought yoghurt, rather than cream (which is more expensive) would have been used in most cases.
Spicing is pretty simple, using the "holy trinity" of Indian spices; coriander, cumin and turmeric, and perhaps finishing with garam masala. Then there´s the traditional Indian "mirepoix" or "sofrito" - onions, garlic, ginger and chiles. I´ve seen some recipes that also use fenugreek leaves in the mixture.
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karadekoolaid said:
Absolutely. Both dishes are Hindu creativity with Mughlai ingredients/dishes.
Now back to Butter Chicken...
Here´s my recipe, which I´ve made at least 1,000 times since I first gave an Indian Food Course in 2011.Recipe Murgh Makhani/Butter Chicken/Chicken Tikka Masala
Despite the fact that some believe India to be a mega-vegetarian society, that´s probably not true, and chicken doesn´t have the stigma of "pork" (for Muslims) or "beef"(for Hindus). Plus, many Hindus fail to report meat-eating, for religious reasons.
So Butter Chicken/ Murgh Makhani was supposedly invented around 1948 and morphed into Chicken Tikka Masala ( The UK´s most popular dish) a couple of decades later. Basically it´s marinated chicken in a creamy tomato sauce.
Observations? I´d have thought yoghurt, rather than cream (which is more expensive) would have been used in most cases.
Spicing is pretty simple, using the "holy trinity" of Indian spices; coriander, cumin and turmeric, and perhaps finishing with garam masala. Then there´s the traditional Indian "mirepoix" or "sofrito" - onions, garlic, ginger and chiles. I´ve seen some recipes that also use fenugreek leaves in the mixture.
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I added a few comments to the Recipe thread. It looks great!

Compare and contrast with Recipe & video from member Hungry Man (who hasn't posted in a while...)

Recipe & Video - Butter Chicken Curry - Stove top Murgh Makhani recipe. His contains cashews, cream, butter and ghee.
 
karadekoolaid said:
The Mughlai Empire was pretty extense, from Uzbekistan to Turkey. However, the evident influence of Persian cuisine ( cream, yoghurt, nuts, dried fruits, etc.) is very evident.
This was then absorbed by Hindu cuisine and adapted to vegetarian cuisine. Navratan Korma and Malai Kofta are supreme examples.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I learned something new today!
 
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